I'm thinking Kreiger, Lothar-Walther or...?

I've got an AR that needs a new barrel and I'm considering making it a long range AR. Open to 22" and beyond barrel lengths. I'd like something for my son to be able to do some easy precision plinking at the range to keep up with the guys running 308 and 6.5 bolt guns.

What free float tube do you recommend? It will either be sand-bagged or using a bipod.

Tony.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: benny6,

My most accurate precision AR is built with a 20" White Oak Armament SDM barrel 1/8 Wylde.
I have MANY other very very accurate ones built with Rainier Arms Ultra Match barrels which at that time were built with Shilen blanks - all SS Wylde chamber.
Now I think they might use a different supplier but I am sure it is something decent.
Always impressed with UM barrels.

I can say firsthand Lothar-Walther.

My Precision AR is equipped with 20 inch Shilen barrel in 223 Wylde. Off a sandbag rest I have shot 3 consecutive 5 shot groups that were under 0.3 inch at 100 yards. BTW the upper is a Gibbz side charger and the barrel extension to receiver fit was a Wring Fit. It took me about 15 minutes to get it lined up so it would push in and about 1/3 of the way from fully seated I had to use a small plastic hammer to drove it home.

I'm guessing you need advise from one of the guys who wears out lots of barrels like fritz for a good answer. I'm not a regular long range precision AR shooter (I have other stuff for that) but the best of the ones I own is White Oak and certainly they have a good reputation in this space. Your not going to run with the bolt 6.5 guns but have fun.

White oak, Pac-Nor (before they burned), Krieger

Criterion for the more affordable end of the spectrum. I have 18" hybrid with rifle length gas that's a solid 3/4" consistent rifle with sierra 65 grain game king hand loads.

Any of those already mentioned would be fine. I prefer White Oak barrels on my AR's.

I have dealer accounts with Lothar-Walther, Criterion, and Kreiger, so I can save some cash using them. I might get the Geissle MK7 rail as well in case I decide to shoot service rifle some day.

https://geissele.com/super-mod...-national-match.html

I can get a good deal on a 20" LW with a Wylde chamber...
https://www.lothar-walther.com...unef-2a-l-20.00?c=24

I've already got a Trijicon TA31RCO, so I could be up and running for matches when the kid isn't shooting it.

So many options!

Tony.

White Oak offers a lot of different barrels. It’s hard to pick one! Which one would be a good choice for punching paper at the range? I am not involved in any kind of competition.

Right now I’m shooting an 18” with a .223 Wylde chamber.

Apologies if this drifts your thread…

quote:

Originally posted by 2Adefender:
White Oak offers a lot of different barrels. It’s hard to pick one! Which one would be a good choice for punching paper at the range? I am not involved in any kind of competition.

Right now I’m shooting an 18” with a .223 Wylde chamber.

Apologies if this drifts your thread…

It's all good!

Most accuate AR barrels I've owned have been 4 groove Bartliens. Compass Lake Engineering chambered them.
Consider the CLE reamer. Shorter freebore then the Wylde, wont be jumping the commonly used 77SMK a country mile.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Most accuate AR barrels I've owned have been 4 groove Bartliens. Compass Lake Engineering chambered them.
Consider the CLE reamer. Shorter freebore then the Wylde, wont be jumping the commonly used 77SMK a country mile.

Thanks! I'll check them out.

Tony.

Can't say enough good things about my Lilja
It shoots like a laser and is the easiest barrel I've ever cleaned.

I'll answer in multiple parts. First, a .223 AR15 can't match a bolt action 308 or 6.5 shot-for-shot at distance. With a good AR15 system, you can have a boat load of fun. So you might as well start with the best tools for the game.

Bullets... Quality 140 grain 6.5CM bullets like Hornady's ELD-M has a G1 BC of .610.

In .308, 175 SMK has a BC of .505. Hornady 168 ELD-M has a BC of .523.

In .223, 69 SMK has .317. 69 TMK has .345. Berger 73 has .365. Hornady 73 ELD has .398. Hornady 75 HPBT has .395. SMK 77 .362. TMK 77 has .415.

Which means .223 bullets have a noticeable disadvantage in wind drift, especially as the distance to target increases. You could consider 224 Valkyrie, but you might find it challenging to achieve great accuracy on a consistent basis. 6mm ARC might be an option, but I have no experience with it.

I've pretty much standardized Hornady 75 HPBT for my long distance shooting. Hornady's loads shoot well at all reasonable distances, in all my barrels -- Wilson Combat, Krieger, Bartein.

The furthest I've shot an AR15 accurately is 800 yards, and that was at the absolute limits of the 75 grain bullets from a 20" barrel. In windy conditions, even 400-500 yards is a big challenge. 400 yards with a quality 6.5CM rifle is a chip shot. Just understand the AR15's disadvantage to larger caliber precision rifles.

The most accurate barrel I have is a 20" DCM profile Krieger, that has a 223 match chamber from the factory. I have its exact replacement in the wings, when this Krieger is shot out.

My 2nd most accurate barrel is a heavy profile 18" Bartlein, chambered in 223 Wylde by Craddock Precision. It's my understanding that Craddock worked for either White Oak or Compass Lake, before he went out on his own. I suspect the Krieger is slightly more accurate, due to its tighter chamber. The Bartlein shoots pretty much the same as the Krieger when using jump-tolerant bullets. However the Krieger is noticeably more accurate with Hornady 73 ELD, which I understand doesn't care much for a jump to the lands. 73 ELD loads don't shoot well in my 5.56 chamber rifles.

If you really want high precision, I recommend a 223 chamber, as noted above by offgrid.

A challenge with some of the high-BC bullets is their lackluster results with big jumps. Sierra's TMK bullets are definitely in this category. Hornady ELD also appears to be, but at a lesser level. SMK 69 seems to be pretty jump tolerant, but it BC is quite low -- it gets tossed in side winds. I know a barrel is toast when it starts to show wonky accuracy at 300-400 yards with SMK 69 loads.

White Oak and Compass Lake are two of the better known shops which do a great job in chambering quality barrels.

For a factory barrel, Wilson Combat's Super Sniper barrels are very good. Not quite up to Bartlein and Krieger, however.

A quality 22" or 24" barrel will produce faster MV than its 20" counterpart. But the MV increases beyond 20" aren't all that great. If you go with a 22" or 24" barrel and shoot it suppressed, consider a rifle plus 1" or 2" gas system.

About 30 years ago, before they got into making iffy firearms, Olympic Arms was making some very good barrels. Their 20” UltraMatch, made of 416 stainless, broach-cut, air-gauged and double heat stress relieved was remarkably accurate with bullet weights up to 70 grain.(1/10 twist) While the most accurate AR barrel I’ve ever shot, it’ll also most likely last forever as it’s freaking heavy and never goes anywhere. Looking back, probably should have sprung for fluting.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Most accuate AR barrels I've owned have been 4 groove Bartliens. Compass Lake Engineering chambered them.
Consider the CLE reamer. Shorter freebore then the Wylde, wont be jumping the commonly used 77SMK a country mile.

I have a good friend that swears by Bartlien,

he is a Distinguised High Master, if one needs a pedigree to go with that,


I have a Compass Lake upper, Krieger barreled, that is a safe queen,
bought it in 2004 and employment changed, so I stopped shooting,
what few rounds went thru it showed it was a really good combo

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:
Can't say enough good things about my Lilja
It shoots like a laser and is the easiest barrel I've ever cleaned.

I will second that. He builds a great barrel.

For what it's worth I have a Rock River ATH upper. It performs very well. 18 inch, 416 Stainless, 8 twist, 223 Wylde chamber. I forgot who makes the barrel. Wilson maybe. But it wasn't very pricey and came ready to go. Also had a Chrome BCG which I like.

For custom, I'd wouldn't hesitate to pick any of the precision names listed already.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I'm thinking Kreiger, Lothar-Walther or...?

I've got an AR that needs a new barrel and I'm considering making it a long range AR. Open to 22" and beyond barrel lengths. I'd like something for my son to be able to do some easy precision plinking at the range to keep up with the guys running 308 and 6.5 bolt guns.

What free float tube do you recommend? It will either be sand-bagged or using a bipod.

Tony.

I consider Lothar-Walther second tier along with Douglass, and similar. Doesn't mean they can't produce great barrels but they also let out some "not so great" barrels. Top tier will be Krieger, Bartlein, Brux, and many others. I favor cut barrels, but I have had great button barrels. I also know that some CHF barrels can be awesome.

Barrel is one thing, chambering is another and if not done properly can turn a great barrel into an ordinary barrel.

As for free float tubes, I have had good luck with Armalite and Geisele, but I think anything that fits well and stays away from the barrel will work just fine.