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Now and Zen
Picture of clubleaf206
posted
So, you’ve bore sighted the rifle, now you’re at the range to fine tune the scope. After firing a shot to foul the barrel do you fire a three shot group and adjust, as necessary? Or do you fire one shot and, with the rifle firmly in place, adjust the crosshairs to where the point of impact is and resight on the bullseye and fire two more shots? Theoretically the second method mentioned will put those two shots in the bullseye.


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"....imitate the action of the Tiger."
 
Posts: 12188 | Location: The untamed wilds of Kansas | Registered: August 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
posted Hide Post
the three shot group is a solid plan imho.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 19263 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
posted Hide Post
Sight for groups, or you’ll be chasing your zero all over the paper. Speaking from experience.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by clubleaf206:
Or do you fire one shot and, with the rifle firmly in place, adjust the crosshairs to where the point of impact is and resight on the bullseye and fire two more shots? Theoretically the second method mentioned will put those two shots in the bullseye.


This is how I do it.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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The number of shots required for a good zero depends upon the consistency of one's shooting system. Great consistency requires all three system components to be capable of stacking shots on top of each other -- the rifle, the ammo, and the shooter.

If you're absolutely certain that you can place a round anywhere on paper that you desire, anytime, then a low round count zero confirmation works.
 
Posts: 7905 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caught in a loop
posted Hide Post
I agree with Flash-lb. I fire one (maybe 2 if it's not clear where my first shot went) shot at the target and then carefully adjust. Once I get the scope zero'd I start shooting for groups.

I also don't laser sight any more. Too expensive to get one that's worth a damn. Instead I go old school and yank the bolt and look downrange through the bore to get on paper, then walk it in with the first few shots. I'm zeroed in within 10 shots most of the time.

I do shoot for groups, but only after the scope gets zeroed.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 3356 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tupperware Dr.
Picture of GCE61
posted Hide Post
I bought a laser bore sight years ago and it's been a big help to get a base zero (I have a tree exactly 98yds in the yard that is my laser target).

At the range I shoot 3 or 4 rds to establish a poi, then make adjustments and shoot singles down to the bullseye, then shoot groups to confirm the poi.
 
Posts: 3555 | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
If you're absolutely certain that you can place a round anywhere on paper that you desire, anytime, then a low round count zero confirmation works.


I’ve never been that certain, so I always confirm with genuine groups.

That said, if I’m going from on paper someplace after actually looking through the bore, then one shot is enough for starters. I use my calibrated reticle to determine how far that shot was from the point of aim, make the indicated adjustment, and then start shooting groups and fine tuning the adjustments as necessary.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47430 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sourdough44
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Here’s what I do with a freshly mounted scope. I start off closer range with a larger cardboard or target, that may be 30-50 yards. At times I may do a home bore scope ahead of time, usually not.

For the 1st shots at close range I adjust the scope on one shot. I do this until close.

Once it’s close, I extend the range then start shooting maybe 3 shot groups. I then fine tune with the 3 shot groups at hunting ranges.
 
Posts: 6205 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's pronounced just
the way it's spelled
posted Hide Post
I usually start with a laser bore sight for left-right alignment and rough drop, like it should be a certain number of inches high or low at 25 yards in the indoor range I frequent. I then go to an outdoor range and verify with a 3-5 round group.
 
Posts: 1506 | Location: Arid Zone A | Registered: February 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
posted Hide Post
I have a Shepherd scope that has a 1st & 2nd focal plane reticles. So if you have the rifle locked into a rest, you can literally do a one shot sighting in. It’s BDC is calibrated to the 308168 SMK round but other calibers match up to the circles out to 800 give or take.

On my other rifles with scope I use the group method..and usually use five rounds for a group



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Posts: 11319 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
Irons or Scope,

3 shots, adjust, 3 more etc etc till I think I am good,

if I have trouble finding them , I will back up to 50 and start,

after all is set, then a 10 shot group ,

why 10? , I used to shoot service rifle a lot,

10 shots for score



https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/

 
Posts: 10440 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of OttoSig
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Not being a smart ass but does it hurt to shoot 3, are we that low on ammo? Don't we all enjoy shooting?

I guess time savings, but for all but the best shooters, WHY NOT three round groups?





11 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 6365 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by clubleaf206:
So, you’ve bore sighted the rifle, now you’re at the range to fine tune the scope. After firing a shot to foul the barrel do you fire a three shot group and adjust, as necessary? Or do you fire one shot and, with the rifle firmly in place, adjust the crosshairs to where the point of impact is and resight on the bullseye and fire two more shots? Theoretically the second method mentioned will put those two shots in the bullseye.


I mount my optic, take it to the range, start at 50 yards. I fire a 10 round shot group, adjust, fire another 10 round group. Once it’s “zeroed” at 50, I drop it about an inch(ish) and head over to the 100 yard range.

Same process; 10 round group, adjust, followed by another 10 round group.

Through the years I’ve found that as long as properly mount your scope, torque to spec, and plum it, there’s no need for bore sighting or adding in any extra steps.

The farthest I’ve ever been off on a target with my current setups has been roughly 4” from the bullseye. YMMV
 
Posts: 874 | Location: NE Pennsylvania | Registered: December 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
Not being a smart ass but does it hurt to shoot 3, are we that low on ammo? Don't we all enjoy shooting?

I guess time savings, but for all but the best shooters, WHY NOT three round groups?


Otto, I don't think the question was coming from an ammo-saving viewpoint.
More like a best accuracy method.

And FWIW when anyone says they are not trying to be a smart ass ~ they actually are. Eek
 
Posts: 22974 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Shoot 1 shot. Measure the POA (Point Of Aim) to the POI (Point Of Impact) and make the adjustment. From then on, shoot 3-shot groups measuring from POA to center of group for adjustment values. Once zeroed, loosen turret, slip to zero and re-tighten. Shoot another 3-shot group to confirm; total number of shots with confirmation is usually 10-13


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Posts: 813 | Location: CA | Registered: February 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
I’ll state a perspective I haven’t seen yet. You have many variables that can affect where the bullet will impact from shot to shot - how firmly the rifle is aimed at the same spot, any variance from where you think the rifle is aimed at versus where it’s actually aimed at, wind, amount and uniformity of the propellant, and the bullet attributes.

Statistics say the larger the sample, the closer it will approximate the population as the variables will cancel each other out. So 3 shots would be better.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 19744 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
So 3 shots would be better.


And for long range shooting purposes, five or even 10 for final confirmation are better still. If you can shoot a tiny group every time and it’s a foot or more from the point of aim, then two or three shots is plenty for an initial rough correction, but not when we’re trying to finalize and adjust things precisely.

My minimum for confirmation is five shots and after having shot enough of them, it became obvious a long time ago that three shot groups, especially one or two of them, can be misleading. It takes only one shot to skew the apparent results. If the purpose of zeroing is to hit a 12" plate at 300 yards or a 16 inch vital zone at 250, then precise zeroing isn’t important, but for other purposes it can be.

This video is a good short explanation of the fundamental problem with too-small samples. (I find some of his presentations to be a little annoying, but he usually knows what he’s talking about.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWQdjnevi-4




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47430 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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I have zeroed a rifle with as little as 3 rounds before. Once I feel I'm "there" I'll start doing 3 round groups to double check myself.


IDPA ESP SS
 
Posts: 974 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: January 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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