I may be trading my FAL for a Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM 16. I'm looking for something lighter and handier than my full-length FAL, and this 16" M1A seems to be a good option. I've found a local guy who's interested in trading a lightly-used OD Green SOCOM 16.



For those with a SOCOM 16, what are your thoughts on it?

Also, it's my understanding that the iron sights are different from the standard M14/M1A. They're reportedly larger/less precise, with a significantly chunkier front post and a wider rear aperture. From what I've read, you can't just swap in a set of USGI sights. How big of an issue is this?

Finally, with USGI M14 magazines being pricier and tougher to find than before, what's the best option for affordable aftermarket magazines? Is Checkmate still the way to go? I see that Checkmate offers 25 rounders... Are those just as reliable as their standard 20 rounders?

IMO unless you have a mut of a parts kit FAL, that is a bad trade. I use CMI 20 rounders with no problems.

I do not shoot my M1A much these days so I don’t have extensive experience with Checkmate magazines, but I’ve never had any problems with them either.

Don’t take this as a criticism, but I am curious about the fascination with 16 inch barrels on this type of rifle. Does reducing the barrel length by 6 inches really have that much of a practical effect on the type of usage they’re put to? I could understand it if we were riding around in a tank or even another cramped vehicle and this was our only defensive weapon, but what other applications does this type of gun benefit by having a minimum-length barrel?

I’ve read various reviews over the years and the one thing that always stands out is what a ferocious muzzle blast they have. I personally wouldn’t like that in a range gun, so I’m also curious whether that’s true.

I was looking at getting a M1A Scout/Squad, which has an 18" barrel and standard sights. But this trade offer has me considering the SOCOM.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I am curious about the fascination with 16 inch barrels on this type of rifle.

Like Arcwelder, I have an odd fascination with short, handy, 16"-18" carbines, especially in .30ish calibers.

My favorite hunting rifle is a 18" Ruger M77 carbine in .30-06.

One of my favorite bolt action milsurps is the 18" barreled Enfield No. 5 ("Jungle Carbine").

I even have a 14.5" AK-103K with permanently attached muzzle brake to bring it up to barely 16".

quote:

what other applications does this type of gun benefit by having a minimum-length barrel?

Hunting on foot and from 4-wheelers, especially in brush. Also, the lighter weight helps when carrying it for long periods.

Ive had all 3 variations. the SOCOM and Scout being my favorites. The last go round I sold the SOCOM in favor of the Scout. There are some modifications you can do to the Scout that puts it at less than an inch longer than the SOCOM while getting th beenefits of the 18in barrel and standard M1A sights.

I hunted down old GI mags for mine but you have to read a bit and know how to spot fakes, CMI mags are the next best thing and are much cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
My favorite hunting rifle is a 18" Ruger M77 carbine in .30-06.

That I can understand.

RogueJSK, I always enjoy your posts. You seem to have a pretty good collection of military surplus firearms and to be very knowledgable about them. Are you sure you want to trade your FAL? I have a FAL,a HK91,a M1A and a BM62. I don't shoot them a lot, but would miss any of them. I got my FN Para FAL over 35 years ago. I have kept an eye on their availability ever since. I think they are getting scarcer. You may have a hard time replacing yours. Maybe you should think about keeping it and just buying a SOCOM? I have always ended up regretting any time I have sold or traded a good gun. I know it is none of my business, but just thought I would mention my experiences.

SOCOM is a great rifle, probably my favorite. A bit heavy for hunting with the 5 round magazine but great in thick brush.

I've sold exactly two rifles in my life because I couldn't stand to shoot them. The SOCOM16 was one of them. There are many .308 semi rifle choices IMO almost all of them are better than this option. I have used Checkmate without issue in either size.

The best thing to say about a SOCOM, is that it's not a SOCOM II.

The shortest you should go is the scout/squad, and the reality is that it's the post height of the front sight that is unique.

CMI mags are current USGI and reliable, it isn't necessary to use pre-ban mags unless you live in certain states. I frankly don't trust any M14 mags over 20rnds, no matter who makes them. Also, over 20rnds it becomes a PITA to handle once inserted.

If you want a short M14/M1A, my advice is to not go as short as 16", and get a scout/squad. If you must, then get the rifle without the stupid heavy rail.

I’ve learned many things over the years on this forum, one of which is to listen to Arc when it comes to anything related to the M1 rifle.

I don't have a SOCOM, but if you're looking for a short M14 type rifle, there are other options than just the SOCOM. Bula Defense is now making 16" barrels that have a 9/16x24 thread pitch which allows more options for muzzle devices like an A2 birdcage flash suppressor or a suppressor. You cab obtain the rifle below without the SAGE chassis and drop it into a GI fiberglass stock from TreelineM14.



The SOCOM's are handy and the rear sights can be simply swapped with GI sights but the rifle will most likely hit too high at 100 yards and you won't be able to bring the sights down low enough to zero your sights. You'd need to order a taller front sight and I think the only people that make taller front sights are SAI.

I've got a nice Bula Defense M14 with a 19.25" barrel in a GI stock and it's the handiest rifle I own from a maneuverability standpoint.


There's also the Bula Defense CBR (Carbon-fiber Battle Rifle). It's got an 18" barrel with a 9/16x24. You can buy just the action (I can build it this way) and drop it in a GI stock. The CBR is an optics-only action so you can attach a red dot or a scope. It's got a medium weight barrel, but I can inquire to see if they have a GI profile barrel.





The carbon fiber stock fits like a traditional stock and can be glass bedded.

The rifles I mentioned are quite affordable.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
The SOCOM's are handy and the rear sights can be simply swapped with GI sights but the rifle will most likely hit too high at 100 yards and you won't be able to bring the sights down low enough to zero your sights. You'd need to order a taller front sight and I think the only people that make taller front sights are SAI.

It looks like another option for installing a set of USGI sights on a SOCOM is with the Smith Enterprises replacement SOCOM gas lock.

It's the correct height for a USGI front sight. Then you can install a USGI rear aperture without running into alignment issues.

It's also threaded 5/8"x24 for attaching a removable muzzle device or suppressor, so you're not stuck with the factory SOCOM integral brake.

I love my SOCOM 16. It is a classic M14 type rifle that I used in the military. While a bit heavy, it does the job accurately and reliably.

I have the Scout Squad and am very happy with it, although I have only put about 40 rounds through it so far.

Although the spec sheet calls for the Mil Standard .069 rear aperture and the National Match .062 front blade, mine (bought used from Warpig) came with the Mil Standard rear, but the SOCOM 16 .125 tritium front post. I would prefer the National Match post for my purposes, but the large post certainly makes quick acquisition easy. I don't see much benefit to the tritium post with the small rear aperture, as aligning them in the dark is damn near impossible for my eyes. I suppose the full SOCOM set up with the larger rear aperture would be easier.

The Scout balances nicely, and although the rail is removable, I will likely add a scout scope when I do some research into what I want and can find one at a good price. I have found that I simply don't seem to have long range iron sight eyesight any more, and the Scout is clearly capable of decent mid-range (300-400 yard, maybe more) accuracy. My eyes simply won't do it at that range any more.

The trigger is pretty good, bedding in the factory synthetic stock is solid, and the rifle is very satisfying to use. It carries well with a sling, and balances nicely in the hand if you are walking through bush.

I have shot the SOCOM, and liked it, but figured that the Scout was a more useable package, having better sights and giving generally between 125 and 150 fps more velocity while not giving up too much in balance or compactness.

Plus, like all standard M1A offerings, it has the shoulder thing that goes up, which is really extra special and makes it that much more lethal.

They are loud.

I've had a SOCOM 16 for some time. It's not light. Others tell me it's loud, but I can't tell. It doesn't seem particularly loud to me.

There's a point of diminishing returns, ballistically, and for the 7.62X51 (nee .308), that's a 18" barrel. That said, the SOCOM 16 is a handy length, and it's a lot of fun to shoot. It was a lot more fun when South African battle packs made shooting a lot less expensive.

I have never had a malfunction or issue using USGI magazines and a lubricated rifle.

I have an aimpoint on mine, and I'd have to go pull it out of the safe, but I believe I replaced the front sight post with an X/S, for contrast against backgrounds.

The factory brake is very effective. Everyone who has shot mine always comments on how little muzzle rise they experience.

^^^^ You make good points about the brake. It's very effective, both on the SOCOM and the Scout (different brakes). Almost no muzzle rise, and from straight behind the gun, report is fairly normal. Report is NASTY when you are to the side of the beast.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
Almost no muzzle rise, and from straight behind the gun, report is fairly normal. Report is NASTY when you are to the side of the beast.

Sounds a lot like the AK-74-style brake on my 14ish inch AK. The concussion to the side is... impressive. (So is the muzzle flash.)

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
^^^^ You make good points about the brake. It's very effective, both on the SOCOM and the Scout (different brakes). Almost no muzzle rise, and from straight behind the gun, report is fairly normal. Report is NASTY when you are to the side of the beast.

When I've been at a range or out on the desert and others have asked to shoot the SOCOM, I've never said no. Every shooter has always been impressed with the lack of muzzle rise. Standing to the side of the rifle, I've never noticed the rifle as louder. Just a bang.

The same is true for me of the .357 Sig. Some say it's a lot louder. I haven't noticed, but perhaps it is. My hearing isn't that great anyway.

The factory brake on the SOCOM is round with small holes. I didn't care for it aesthetically when I first got it, but I'm more interested in performance than looks. I talked to Smith Ent. ten or fifteen years ago about his three-prong, but ended up keeping the factory device simply because it works.