Recently my eye has been wandering "old school" and been thinking about a Mac or Cobray M11/9mm ... I don't remember the designation but traded into one in 380, maybe 25 years ago ... It had horrible trigger-slap ... in less than 10 rounds my finger would be numb ... It went by-by in a hurry

May have to build it but maybe one with a LAGE upper ... Any experiance / input?
Maybe even get one in F/A if I like the semi ... Would that be powder springs?

Anybody have that keltec 223 bullpup? That looks interesting. I think it's light also.

Of those listed, I voted for MPX as it is the only one from your options that I have.

My AR pistol is 5.56 and until I can get it suppressed, I am a little leery of using my 7.5" AR inside for an HD situation (#loudasshit #holyfinfireballbatman).

Reliability wise, no worries 500-600 rounds through it and it has been absolutely flawless. Adams Arms gas piston upper on a no-name lower with a Sig brace.


I recently picked up an G2 MPX in 9mm and only have a couple hundred rounds through it, but would have no worries trusting it for HD. Again, no failures using Gen 1 or Gen 2 mags.



Not sure either would really be my first choice though. My P226 Tacops or my new P320C Tacops would be preferable to me as primary HD. With 20/21 round mags I think the reduced firepower over 30 rounds is a fair trade for maneuverability and being able to have a hand free for a light or whatever. Not sure I want to be using a two handed weapon in close quarters. If I am going to go with a two handed "pistol", I would rather it provide rifle caliber power over 9mm.

I have a spare mag sitting with each. If I get to the point of having to reload, the MPX and AR aren't far away. At that point though it would likely be a "Final protective fire" situation.

I have an 8" suppressed 300 BO for home defense. I recently dispatched a coyote with it from 9 feet.

You REALLY don't want to get hit by this thing. The impact was louder than the gunshot. The 9mm choices will not have the impact of the 300 nor will they have the reach. For me the 300 is a no brainer.

Smithnsig,
That would be the Kel Tec RDB (Rifle Downward ejecting Bullpup). I think they have been available for about a year now but (like most Kel Tec products), they can be hard to find and I am not sure if I would trust my like to a Kel Tec product (no offense to those who carry their pistols daily) without putting a couple thousand flawless rounds through it.

I have a 9mm AR that I built, SBRed and Suppressed. I wouldnt feel undergunned with 33 rounds of 147Gr Hollowpoints out of it.

I have never held any other 9mm subgun however. (I went with 9mm AR so that the manual of arms for all of my rifles would be exactly the same)

Since this thread has diverged somewhat to include the CZ Scorpion - I have one I bought thinking my wife would be able to use it as well. She's not able to pull the bolt back because of the strong spring used by the blowback action. I suppose this is true of any blowback 9mm.
Those that go with a .223/5.56 - think about how loud it will be if you discharge that unsuppressed in your house. Without hearing protection there would likely be severe, permanent hearing damage. Even suppressed it's not hearing safe.
Suppressed, subsonic is the way to go. In my opinion of course

It is also worth mentioning that Beretta makes the Cx4 carbine which would be about the same size as a SBR'd 9mm AR (-27") without the tax stamp and paperwork. It is a little ungainly looking and can be, at times, difficult to find but Bud's has the variant which feeds from 92 magazines in stock. It may not be as sexy looking as the MP5 and MPX but it'll get the job done.

I have been of the mind set that in a home invasion senario a 12ga with 8 rounds of substantial shot is going to be a real winner in dealing with multiple intruders. The damage and coverage of a three or four shot burst would be devastating. I know that is not your question. But you did mention your current hd tool was a shotgun.

9mm other - Keltec Sub2000 Gen2

Can be had for $350-400

Takes whatever mag choice you like depending on model.

FWIW mine takes Glock mags. Cheap and I can throw a 33 rounder in no problem.

That's 33 rounds coming out like a 357. Yeah, that'll slow down any intruder(s).

And it has a threaded barrel

cheers~

I have a POF MP5k clone with a pistol brace and a CZ Scorpion SBR. Out of your choices for 9mm, I would do the CZ Scorpion with a pistol brace. Out of my choices for home defense: IWI X95 in 556.

I am waiting for SB Tactical Brace:

SB Tactical SBT5K

quote:

Originally posted by sigNull:
Since this thread has diverged somewhat to include the CZ Scorpion - I have one I bought thinking my wife would be able to use it as well. She's not able to pull the bolt back because of the strong spring used by the blowback action. I suppose this is true of any blowback 9mm.
{snip}

The main complaint I have about my Scorpion is the tiny charge handle ... there are several aftermarket manufacturers that make an oversized one ... I wouldn't be surprised that if she could get a better hold on it that she could operate it fine.
BTW ... the only reason I haven't spent the ~$50 for an aftermarket one is Manticore has hinted at a switch-back version, meaning that it would fold down similar to the HK9x type charge handles ...

As I was writing this I went to Manticore's website the switchback charge handle is now a reality ... while $72.95 is more than I'd like to pay, it's not out of reason.
As pointed out on their site, you can use the factory CH on the other side and have ambidextrous charging ... or for those that need complete, you can buy 2 and have the switchback extended handles on both sides!
I went ahead and bought one ... for all my bitching about it I kind of felt like I had too ... I tried to find something else to ease the sting of the $9.50 shipping but I really didn't see anything else I "needed" at the time.

https://www.manticorearms.com/...charging-handle.html

I bought a PSA AR9 Glock mag model late last year. It's a range toy/groundhog/wife's HD gun. My wife is incredibly recoil sensitive and that rifle has near zero to speak of with standard and low recoil rounds, about 30 of which are defense rounds. She'd never get a second shot off with a shotgun and she's sort of wary of a 556 AR so the 9mm seemed like the perfect answer to me. I have about 150 rounds through it so far without any issues.

I have an SP5K, and MPX SBR, and an HK USC/UMP clone in .45. I used to have the UMP as my go to home defense set up but I am contemplating switching to the MPX. I just want to find some good 147 grain hps that work reliably in the MPX. I haven't really tried any so if anyone has some suggestions that'd be great.

quote:

Originally posted by LVJD:
I have an SP5K, and MPX SBR, and an HK USC/UMP clone in .45. I used to have the UMP as my go to home defense set up but I am contemplating switching to the MPX. I just want to find some good 147 grain hps that work reliably in the MPX. I haven't really tried any so if anyone has some suggestions that'd be great.

I have a 9mm SBR which I run suppressed. I like the HST 147grn rounds which also happen to be subsonic.

quote:

Originally posted by LVJD:
I have an SP5K, and MPX SBR, and an HK USC/UMP clone in .45. I used to have the UMP as my go to home defense set up but I am contemplating switching to the MPX. I just want to find some good 147 grain hps that work reliably in the MPX. I haven't really tried any so if anyone has some suggestions that'd be great.

I used to just buy 9mm's but when I started shooting 147 subsonic's I decided it was time to start reloading them ... I've been loading for other calibers for decades so all I needed was dies, primers and projectiles ... I'd been picking up brass for years and already had powder ... I can load 147 for half or less than I can buy cheap 9mm ... you might consider it but I would only consider it on a progressive press, single stage isn't worth all the time it takes unless your building precision rounds; I saw a used Dillon Square Deal (pistols cartridges only) at a local show for $225 and it had everything you needed for 9mm

Another vote for Kel-Tec Sub 2000 (second edition). Easy to store. Low cost magazines. Shoots just about any 9mm. Downside: no hold open on last round and (inherently) heavy spring.

Hard to find!! Mac

My Manticore Arms Scorpion Switch-Back charge handle was in the mail today ... that was insanely fast!

It's so much easier to charge with the longer charge handle I think my 8 year old grand-daughter could charge it now, the only thing I don't like about it is that its not spring loaded, it has a spring loaded ball & detente that rely's on the force of the bolt closing to swing it to the closed position ... I really thought for $72.95 it would be spring loaded ... there was nothing in the description that described it operation other than it folds like the one they also have for the AUG

I moved the factory charge handle to the right side and the Manticore is on the left for a comparison of just haw much bigger it is when extended ... when folded it only protrudes slightly more than the factory CH ... and to me that's a big plus ... not to mention that I can now charge it from either side

Anyway, for your viewing pleasure ...



BTW, mine is a SBR'd pistol with the carbine handguard ... i like it because it covers about 1/2 the suppressor

I recently went down this rabbit hole started by my desire to have a 10mm sub gun. I wanted the versatility of close up or reaching out.

That took me to SBRs, subs, 45 acp, the 9... and all the while not exactly great proven platforms other that the popularity of AR pistols and some having to fiddle and some not.

I got a MPX. And not for the 9 alone. If I don't care about capacity or recoil... 40 SW actually makes a lot more sense in a sub gun than a pistol. I may even try 357 sig when ever the conversions come out.

Bottom line is this... As much as everyone loves shot guns... and I have a Benneli M4... they are still "long guns"... and they are loud and brutal. Great for stopping anyone doing what ever they are doing, but also not pussy cats. My house is tight.

AR pistols with rifle rounds... you are joking right? Take away the barrel and the advantage of rifle rounds, and keep the huge powder charge and muzzle flash and concussion grenade like report. No thanks. Inside, it's worse than a shot gun.

I have a 6.8 spc AR... never cared for 300 BO. But after this rabbit hole, have a much better understanding and appreciate the 300 BO. That's just not where I went.

My point is... 9 isn't "all that, but a sub gun is very good for the home. Pistol rounds are much easier to suppress, which I plan. And the biggest advantage of rifle rounds... velocity... isn't exactly needed close up and short range.

As much as I wanted something versatile that can reach out and do short/med range... I just don't need medium. I already have a rifle for that. Zombie apocalypse, I have a M4. As much as I like 10mm... high velocity hot 10 out of a 8 inch barrel isn't really needed in the home. If I need more than a 9/40/357 sub gun... I have a couple options to choose from. For a small, maneuverable, high capacity, quiet, suppressible, platform with hardly any recoil that can easily have light/dot/laser hanging off with 2 handed control... I got the MPX.