quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
I just lament the math and concentration that went into adjusting irons. It made you think.

Not really, they were made for Marines

I have a large box of condemned Aimpoint sights the agency got from the military program, and about half were unserviceable due to heavy damage, mostly to the power switch or failure of the elevation and windage adjustments, so they can be destroyed by enough carelessness or mischance. Others, however, were withdrawn for things like scratched lenses. The last is no real problem and has little effect on the sight’s usability. I have more faith in Aimpoints than EOTechs because of the bias I’ve developed against the latter for a couple/three reasons, but EOTechs still seem to be durable enough for service use.

Iron sights are rugged, but hardly indestructible. This is one of two obviously damaged front sight posts I’ve seen in a small department.

How in the snot do you do that to a front sight post without doing any damage to anything else on the front sight? Whatever hit that must've come from a wild angle.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
How in the snot do you do that to a front sight post ...?

If you look closely at the very top corner of the post, it’s possible to see a small bit of displaced metal. From that I concluded that when the officer was pulling the rifle out of its rack in his vehicle, the sight was on the bottom, dropped down, and struck some part of the rack or perhaps something else in the vicinity as it was being pulled to the rear. The offending object must have been narrow enough to fit between the front sight wings.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
How in the snot do you do that to a front sight post without doing any damage to anything else on the front sight? Whatever hit that must've come from a wild angle.

He was using it to shoot around corners.

Trijicon MRO on my work gun for a couple years now with no issues.
Zeroed it once when I first got it. Swap the battery each year at the annual qualification zero has been spot on every qual.
Do I trust it enough to pull my flip up Troys? Nope sure don't.

Another thing to consider is almost all of our troops operate in teams - i.e., not alone. So a weapon sight going inop is bad, but there is likely a buddy nearby who can cover you until you get your shit together.

John Q Public likely doesn't have a fire team / squad with him, so I certainly recommend at least flip ups on weapons with RDS.

For LPV Scopes, I use a set of quality offsets - also useful when your scope fogs over due to weather, temperature, and humidity.

Don't think you need them? Take your rifle w/ scope outside from an air-conditioned house on a humid day and see how long it takes to stop fogging up.

Opics all day. I worked in the armory off and on for a USAF security forces unit. The M-4 were a daily issue items using M68 Aimpoints. I lost count of the front sights I found bent or rear flip up sights (weird multi range fragile pieces of shit) that broke and had to be replaced.

We broke one Aimpoint. It still worked the brightness knob just broke off.

As others have said there are issues with fogging after being cold.

quote:

Originally posted by guardianangel762:
Opics all day. I worked in the armory off and on for a USAF security forces unit. The M-4 were a daily issue items using M68 Aimpoints. I lost count of the front sights I found bent or rear flip up sights (weird multi range fragile pieces of shit) that broke and had to be replaced.

We broke one Aimpoint. It still worked the brightness knob just broke off.

As others have said there are issues with fogging after being cold.

Let me guess, MaTech BUIS, with the big lever on the side?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Don't think you need them? Take your rifle w/ scope outside from an air-conditioned house on a humid day and see how long it takes to stop fogging up.

An excellent point, and one I never see raised by the tactical crowd. I do address it in my cold weather training because the same thing will happen after standing around outside in single-digit temperatures for an hour or so and then entering a warm and humid residence—except that the fogging will most likely become ice. What I advise anyone planning to do that is to remove the optic and raise the backups before going in: Probably the most legitimate reason to have the optic on a QD mount of some sort.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Don't think you need them? Take your rifle w/ scope outside from an air-conditioned house on a humid day and see how long it takes to stop fogging up.

An excellent point, and one I never see raised by the tactical crowd. I do address it in my cold weather training because the same thing will happen after standing around outside in single-digit temperatures for an hour or so and then entering a warm and humid residence—except that the fogging will most likely become ice. What I advise anyone planning to do that is to remove the optic and raise the backups before going in: Probably the most legitimate reason to have the optic on a QD mount of some sort.

I never had a fogging issue with optics at FT Drum (where it gets so cold, it's not funny and snowfall is measured in yards), GA or in Iraq or ASTAN. I did have a fogging issues with my eye protection. But, given the amount of time we spend out side on convoy briefs and PCCs/PCIs, the lack of air conditioning and the crappiness of our truck heaters/AC those issues might have self corrected or been mitigated. I can't recall where, but I have seen references to what you are talking about in a manual with the recommendation of storing equipment at ambient temp/humidity. I could see it being a major issue for a Law Enforcement officer going from a heated vehicle to an active event very quickly.

I will say that every time I deployed, I received McNett Anti fog as part of RFI. I'm not endorsing the product, but the Army thought enough of it to give it to everyone I deployed with.

Keep in mind that condensation fogging occurs when something cold is exposed to humid, warmer air. The most common example that most of us are familiar with is removing a cold beverage can from the refrigerator on a sultry day: the can will soon be covered in condensed water. Putting warm can into a cold refrigerator doesn’t cause that effect, and the same is true of taking an optic out of a heated building or vehicle into cold weather.

This misconception is sometimes promoted by articles about cold weather hunting: “I didn’t take my rifle into the guide tent at night because I didn’t want the scope to fog up when I went out in the morning.” That is the opposite of the way it works.

(Note that there are conditions under which it might seem as though a warm optic fogs up when exposed to cold air. If dew is forming at night and an optic has had a few minutes to cool to ambient temperature, then water will of course form on the optic just as on any other object. This is something amateur astronomers are sometimes plagued with, and here is a comprehensive article about the phenomenon.)

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Keep in mind that condensation fogging occurs when something cold is exposed to humid, warmer air. The most common example that most of us are familiar with is removing a cold beverage can from the refrigerator on a sultry day: the can will soon be covered in condensed water. Putting warm can into a cold refrigerator doesn’t cause that effect, and the same is true of taking an optic out of a heated building or vehicle into cold weather.

This misconception is sometimes promoted by articles about cold weather hunting: “I didn’t take my rifle into the guide tent at night because I didn’t want the scope to fog up when I went out in the morning.” That is the opposite of the way it works.

(Note that there are conditions under which it might seem as though a warm optic fogs up when exposed to cold air. If dew is forming at night and an optic has had a few minutes to cool to ambient temperature, then water will of course form on the optic just as on any other object. This is something amateur astronomers are sometimes plagued with, and here is a comprehensive article about the phenomenon.)

Excellent point. It would explain why I didn't notice the issue. I would point out that in Iraq and ASTAN most of the buildings I entered were of similar temperature and humidity to the ambient temperature outside so there was probably not enough difference to cause condensation. The one place it might have been an issue was at FT Drum when you entered a heated tent/building, but since the tents and buildings were mine, I wasn't staring through the optics.

I can definitely see where it could be a major issue for a police officer. Going from an air conditioned patrol car to a hot and humid environment would definitely cause condensation on the optic given your expectation. Do your officers also experience fogging on their sunglasses or prescription eye wear?

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
Do your officers also experience fogging on their sunglasses or prescription eye wear?

I haven’t discussed it with anyone else, but I certainly do, and based on the products on the market it seems that it’s a common problem.

I have tried goggles with various antifog coatings with minimal success. I even have a set with a small battery operated ventilation fan. They’re better than the coated ones, but not perfect and I can hear the fan with my amplified hearing protection. Now I usually just wear a pair of my ordinary shooting glasses; they don’t provide quite as much protection as good ballistic-rated goggles, but they’re much less prone to fogging.

As with optics, the problem with glasses/goggles is humidity and temperature difference. I sometimes get fogging on my glasses even during moderate weather because my skin temperature is higher than the glasses’ lenses and I’m sweating like a horse. It’s most common when shooting a precision rifle and I’m not moving around to dissipate the heat and humidity I’m producing.

Added: And to emphasize for those who aren’t blessed (or cursed) with living someplace where the humidity doesn’t regularly hit 95%, low humidity helps with the condensation/fogging problem.

Trijicon Reflex with DD BUIS lower 1/3rd co-witness made sense to me. No flipping, always there, and no buttons or battery on the optic. https://www.trijicon.com/na_en...uct3.php?pid=RX01NSN