quote:

Originally posted by cowbuyu:
My reciprocating handles don't bother me. It's a nice feature, but I'm not sure why this is such a big deal with the SCARs. There are a lot of M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, M14/M1As, Mini14s, AKs, Galils, SIGs, etc out there that seem to work well without having non reciprocating bolt handles.

I was wondering if someone was gonna go there. I applaud you, Sir.

In regards to the "SCAR thumb", it isn't an issue if the cocking handle is used on the outboard side, as God intended.

I had a SCAR16 for a while. It was a very nice-shooting rifle; I sold it, but I don't miss it. I never had an issue with the bolt handle, and shot it in a some pretty unique positions.

Also, does the SCAR non-reciprocating handle have a forward assist ability?

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:

quote:

Originally posted by cowbuyu:
My reciprocating handles don't bother me. It's a nice feature, but I'm not sure why this is such a big deal with the SCARs. There are a lot of M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, M14/M1As, Mini14s, AKs, Galils, SIGs, etc out there that seem to work well without having non reciprocating bolt handles.

I was wondering if someone was gonna go there. I applaud you, Sir.

In regards to the "SCAR thumb", it isn't an issue if the cocking handle is used on the outboard side, as God intended.

I had a SCAR16 for a while. It was a very nice-shooting rifle; I sold it, but I don't miss it. I never had an issue with the bolt handle, and shot it in a some pretty unique positions.

Also, does the SCAR non-reciprocating handle have a forward assist ability?

Almost all of the other guns mentioned have the reciprocating charging handle sticking out of the right side of the gun. If you shoot right handed, it’s not a problem when your left hand is the support hand. I shoot right handed, but given a choice, I have the charging handle on the left as it’s much more convent for me to pull it straight back with my left hand than reaching over the top of the gun to pull it back if the handle is on the right.

But, there are two issues I have when using the handle on the right. First, if you want to grip around the front of the magwell, you can’t have your thumb sticking up and risk getting it broken by the handle. The other issue is getting your knuckles busted by a scope or scope mount.

As I mentioned in another thread about oversized charging handle latches on ARs, you are only messing with that thing when you initially load, and when you fix a problem. One of those happens when all is well; hopefully the other doesn't happen at all, if you've got a good gun, good ammo, and a good mag. The SCAR and SIG rifles previously mentioned have LRBHO, so you don't need to play with the handle on reloads. I would rather train to fix things with an outboard reciprocating handle, than have an inboard handle (reciprocating or non). Taking my hand off "fire control" to fix a malfunction doesn't bother me at all. Different strokes for different folks. I understand everyone would like to be prepared to perform at their best in every worst-case scenario, but I'll sacrifice a second on my malfunction clearing, if it means I don't have a cocking handle poking me in my back or front when the rifle is slung, or potentially getting me in the thumb during cycling. Non-reciprocating isn't terrible, so long as it has a forward assist. However, when it comes to the SCAR, I don't think it needed "fixed" as the one video thumbnail states. When it comes to clearance of scopes and mounts, I am down to train around it.

So many of our shooting doctrines are/were built around the AR15. When we try to shoehorn another type of gun into that environment, and are annoyed when things don't work out, we go to screwing around with a gun that we were initially drawn to because it wasn't an Ar15, trying to make it more like an AR15. If the SCAR has attributes that make it preferred to the AR15, ditch the AR15 and the training principles that don't cross-over, and train with the SCAR. Don't stick the gun so far forward on the barricade, so the cocking handle has room to work. Food for thought.

I love SIG 55x rifles, but the AR15 is just better. I don't wish the SIGs were more like AR15s.

Were all different people with different needs trainings etc so I think that has to be kept in mind for things like this. I didn't like the reciprocating handle and still do not. I bought a folding CH for it so that solves the issue as it just folds when it smacks me or a barricade or the ground or whatever now. Having done it to my thumb twice I can state that it is painful but I dont see it breaking my thumb. I do however think the greater issue is it creating a malfunction when something gets into the CH path. Again different strokes. I'm glad the factory is going to offer an option and it seems like all of us will be happy with one version or the other.

Nothing definitive on the forward assist yet? I have not watched the videos, but did check FN's site, and saw no mention of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
The other issue is getting your knuckles busted by a scope or scope mount.

How does having the handle on the right or left apply to this? Or a reciprocating or non-reciprocating handle? Regardless, if the handle isn't shaped properly and your mount is in the way, you're going to bust your knuckles either way. right?

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Nothing definitive on the forward assist yet? I have not watched the videos, but did check FN's site, and saw no mention of it.

this article says "superior forward assist capabilities"...
https://www.tactical-life.com/...car-charging-handle/

Apparently that came from FN; it's cited here also:
https://www.recoilweb.com/fn-u...-handles-170344.html

It's from FN's press release:

https://fnamerica.com/press-re...i-automatic-line-up/

Their wording is terrible. I am not yet convinced that it has a forward assist function.

The fact that it seems like it's ambi-only is kina lame. You can't pick a side; you only get both.

Also, does it have a latch mechanism? If it does not, and is merely a detent of sorts, a barricade can still bump it out of battery, or prevent it from going all the way into battery, depending on the state of the action when the handle is potentially interfered with.

Maybe the problem isn't in the reciprocation, but in the position in the first place. A post above referenced some other weapons, and the fact their cocking handles are more rearward. The SCAR, and other modern designs, moved the handles forward to make them "easier" to manipulate. Maybe therein lies the downfall. Not as prone to interference with things you're propping on if the handles aren't on the forward portion of the gun.

As with big and ambi AR charging handles, the easier we make things to grab, the easier they are grabbed by things that aren't our fingers.

I am not out to campaign against this new NRCH; I just think it isn't this fix to some huge problem that everyone else seems to think it is.

I a scar-aholic. I have lots of them, with lots of different configurations and lots of time doing competitive things with them. As far as I am concerned the totality of the issue is that if your optic mount has some meaningful protrusion like a release, that's a true issue. I have been rescued from that by bobro engineering who gave me the option of putting the damn mount hardware on the opposite side. problem solved, don't look back. Never had any other issues of hitting a barricade, my thumb(s) or some such.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Their wording is terrible. I am not yet convinced that it has a forward assist function.

Agreed. Pretty nebulous.

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
The other issue is getting your knuckles busted by a scope or scope mount.

How does having the handle on the right or left apply to this? Or a reciprocating or non-reciprocating handle? Regardless, if the handle isn't shaped properly and your mount is in the way, you're going to bust your knuckles either way. right?

If you have a QD mount or screw mount, the levers or screw/nut sticks out on one side. Sometimes you can’t swap it over to the other side and that’s what your hand hits, not the scope or mount itself.

quote:

Sometimes you can’t swap it over to the other side

Why would that be true at this point? I've a zillion different optics on my scar's and I've not come across a single type of optic that I can't find a mount that has the mounting hardware on the side I need it.

I'm lefty, keep the charge on the right side like AK, M14, etc. Used to that.

Day 1 with the scar I unwittingly did the magwell grip with thumb pushing forward on the charging handle. It just fits so nicely there. Bang, felt it try to move back. I pinned it there, keeping the spent case in the chamber. Put a grip up front and solved the issue since then. It doesn't bother me but given the option I would probably take the NRCH.

I don't know I'm on the fence. This thread isn't a hallelujah they finally did it, it's just noticing and point it out. Seems like it happened quietly. There's a side of me that likes it the way it is, with direct control and simpler.

But I recognize it's 2021 and this could have been addressed a long time ago. I think the military asked for it this way so FN built it this way. The same guys who solved this problem on the FAL in the 50s, so it wasn't trying to land on the moon.

And to cut the mass of the whole carrier down and possibly improve on the scope killing side of things, (also which I haven't had any issues), as well as dumb down an already no problem recoil impulse, while maybe shaving a few Ozs, why not I guess. Price, that would be why not.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Their wording is terrible. I am not yet convinced that it has a forward assist function.

The fact that it seems like it's ambi-only is kina lame. You can't pick a side; you only get both.

Also, does it have a latch mechanism? If it does not, and is merely a detent of sorts, a barricade can still bump it out of battery, or prevent it from going all the way into battery, depending on the state of the action when the handle is potentially interfered with.

Maybe the problem isn't in the reciprocation, but in the position in the first place. A post above referenced some other weapons, and the fact their cocking handles are more rearward. The SCAR, and other modern designs, moved the handles forward to make them "easier" to manipulate. Maybe therein lies the downfall. Not as prone to interference with things you're propping on if the handles aren't on the forward portion of the gun.

As with big and ambi AR charging handles, the easier we make things to grab, the easier they are grabbed by things that aren't our fingers.

I am not out to campaign against this new NRCH; I just think it isn't this fix to some huge problem that everyone else seems to think it is.

It does have a forward assist. While the wording is poor, if you look closely at the BCG picture from the recoil article you can see the spring loaded tab feature on the charging handle "shuttle" and also a hook shaped cutout on the carrier.

The spring loaded tab on the shuttle is what holds it forward. When you pull the charging handle back the tab moves, which causes the tab to interface with the hook cutout on the carrier. This is what gives you the forward assist function. With the shuttle all the way forward the spring tab moves to engage in the recess of the new front end plate which holds the shuttle forward, and the carrier is free to reciprocate independently.

edit: The embedded picture was huge so here is the direct link instead.

https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-c.../08/SCAR_NRCH_02.jpg

Update from Shot, from the FN SCAR rep. (skip to about 8:30 for retro kit info)

He says the retro kit will be available in May, no price quoted, but says the front pin attaches to the front plate and will require "Armorer Level" magic to install because there is lock tight and heat guns involved.

I don't know, might be a situation where I'm buying everyone's old spare BCGs instead.