I recently purchased a Steiner PX4i 1-4 and I'm very happy with it, I tried other 1-4's in the past but for some reason or an other I didn't like them. For the price and features I really like the PX4i and I'm seriously thinking to transition to scopes only, as disclaimer I have astigmatism and have difficulty seen the red dot (most are a blur to me). Would be wise to go without a red dot?

quote:

Originally posted by venenoindy:
I have astigmatism and have difficulty seen the red dot

I believe you’ve answered your own question with that statement. Being able to see the reticle clearly is essential, and I wouldn’t put up with a fuzzy view of it if it can be avoided. That’s evidently true if you use a scope with a conventional reticle, so I would then determine if the scopesight had any unacceptable characteristics or features. If not, the choice seems simple.

I usually use red dot Aimpoints on my patrol rifles, but I do have one semiprecision setup with a 1-6× scope and illuminated reticle. The latter sight is much bigger and heavier, and probably not as rugged, so I therefore prefer the Aimpoints for most uses, but if I couldn’t see the red dots clearly, I’d switch to a low-powered variable without hesitation. And of course magnifying optics do offer significant aiming advantages in some situations (and that’s why I have one on the one rifle).

I had a brief conversation about this with another member here recently. I have recently been moving a lot of my red dots over to lpvo. In the past they weren't quite up to snuff but some current production models have closed the gap and I've begun to transition over to them on any rifle that gets used at 50+ yards. In my personal experience the break even point for me on lpvo vs red dot is about 30 yards. Under that and the red dot is better for me. Your experience may be different but my 2 short barrels run red dots and everything else has a magnified optic. I don't have any experience with px4i but i do have a Steiner Military 1-4 and aside from weight, am quite happy with it.

I'm very interested. I have an Aimpoint Pro on my main rifle but for others I'm interested in the 1x-6 or so power optic. My 2.5-7x scope on my .22 is great but at close range, even the 2.5 is too much.

Sigfreund comment hit the nail on the head.

I'd stick with the Steiner and not buy an RDS if I were you.

The only other option I would float is something like a leupold prismatic or a low powered ACOG (1.5X). Essentially, they are an RDS but with an etched reticle. Folks with astigmatism have used them and say they aren't an issue. They aren't very common and they aren't very popular, but they work. The ACOG is particularly tough, but its ACOG expensive and overbuilt for most applications. If you dig around here you can find posts about them.

Previously the only penalties for going with a high quality LPV like the Vortex Razor were cost and weight.

In my opinion they are optically superior to red dots even at under 10 yards.


With the advent of the P4Xi, which I have looked through but don't own yet, the weight penalty has been reduced and the cost is almost on par with an Aimpoint.


I have one red dot on an AR pistol and I am seriously considering replacing it with a P4Xi.

If the cost was equal, I'd have LPVO's on everything.

I can get a MRO with a LaRue QD mount for about $500.

If I put a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 (my absolute favorite LPVO) on a LaRue QD mount I'm in for $900.

So I have my favorite and most shot rifles with LPVO's and the rest with red dots.

I find a 1-4X24 more useful than a red dot. Sold all my EoTech's and Aimpoint's and replace them with 1-4X24's

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
Previously the only penalties for going with a high quality LPV like the Vortex Razor were cost and weight.

In my opinion they are optically superior to red dots even at under 10 yards.


With the advent of the P4Xi, which I have looked through but don't own yet, the weight penalty has been reduced and the cost is almost on par with an Aimpoint.


I have one red dot on an AR pistol and I am seriously considering replacing it with a P4Xi.

I highly suggest to do it, the PX4i is a heck of scope for price.

Durability has to be a factor. A LPVO will not withstand the same abuses as a quality red dot. Whether or not your rilfe will see that type of work is for you to decide.

I havent been able to get them to the same speed at 10 yards. Perhaps I just need more time behind them.

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Durability has to be a factor. A LPVO will not withstand the same abuses as a quality red dot.

I have no compelling evidence, but I'm not so sure that's true. A lot of RDOs are perched pretty high on mounts that leave them quite vulnerable to impact.

Anything mounted on the slide or receiver of a gun is subject to impacts. What’s most important to its durability is how the sight is designed and manufactured. There’s at least one video showing how an Aimpoint sight can withstand an incredible amount of deliberate abuse without failing or even losing zero. When someone demonstrates the same sort of thing for any conventional scopesight, then I’ll be equally impressed.

None of that is to claim that red dot sights are indestructible. My agency got a large box full of military surplus Aimpoints, and half or more were inoperable due to significant damage, mostly to the battery cases and switches. The rest were declared surplus due to things like scratched lenses, but those continue to serve their purpose just fine despite showing evidence of very hard use.

More to the point, though, the reason that some red dot optics like the Micro Aimpoints and similar sights appear to be mounted high and spindly as compared with conventional scopesights is simply because of their small size. The height that a sight must be mounted is mainly governed by a couple of things. The first is the size of the sight itself (e.g., it has a large objective lens), but when they’re mounted on rifles with straight line stocks like the AR-15 variants, minimum mounting height is governed by the shooter’s head position.

I just checked the mounting height of two of my AR sights. The center of the Leupold 1-6× variable is about 2.7 inches above the bore line. The center of the Aimpoint CompML3 is about 2.7 inches above the bore line. The Leupold is secured with a very heavy Spuhr mount that’s probably stronger than the LaRue mount of the Aimpoint, but if I subjected the two guns to impacts that were capable of breaking the Aimpoint off the gun, I wouldn’t have much confidence that the Leupold was still functioning properly either.

And of course the mounting height isn’t the only thing that makes a sight vulnerable to impacts. My nonmicro Aimpoint is 5.0 inches long; the Leupold is 11.1 inches long. By length alone the variable is over twice as likely to be smacked into things as the red dot.