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Mistake Not...
Picture of Loswsmith
posted
I have a .22 Ruger American that I'm trying to sight in. My easy peasy mostly anytime range is indoor and only to 25 yards. Is there a easy drop compensation to calculate what POA/POI I can use at 25 yards to get a 50 yard zero?


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Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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any ballistic calculator will do what you want. If you want it accurate to any degree then you need a few items I don't know for your gun like height over bore and ammo characteristics.
Using data from my .22 which I do know it would have to be about .77inches high if you want a rough guess using the std. .22 40g ammo I shoot.
But in any case just plug your stuff in on one of the thousand calculators and go.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11226 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
I have a .22 Ruger American that I'm trying to sight in. My easy peasy mostly anytime range is indoor and only to 25 yards. Is there a easy drop compensation to calculate what POA/POI I can use at 25 yards to get a 50 yard zero?

It's not too difficult to figure out, just need a little info.

What's your sight height over rifle bore measurement? This is likely the most important part of the calculation. It doesn't really matter if you use iron sights, red dot, or scope. If you get this measurement within 1/8" or .1" (depending how you measure), it will help.

What kind of ammo are you using? Probably not as important for the distances involved, but worth noting. The could be some differences in flight ballistics for your distances for different ammo -- say between a sub-sonic 40 grain bullet and a hyper-velocity 32 grain bullet.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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Thanks! I haven't ever used an online ballistic calculator. Any particular recommendations? I'll bust out the measuring tape for the sight/bore measurement tonight.


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Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Telecom Ronin
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Hornady or Stelok(sp), the pro version of Strelok is very nice and worth it if you want to save your data for multiple rifles.
 
Posts: 8301 | Location: Back in NE TX ....to stay | Registered: February 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
I'll bust out the measuring tape for the sight/bore measurement tonight.

Did you make the measurements? With the height-over-bore and some ammo information, I can get you through JBM ballistics data.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you use an iPhone take a look at Bullet Drop App
https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap...rop/id413617625?mt=8

Simple and easy to use.

That's the free version. There is a paid version ($2) which allows you to save more data and share across devices.



Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.

-D.H. Lawrence
 
Posts: 11524 | Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
I'll bust out the measuring tape for the sight/bore measurement tonight.

Did you make the measurements? With the height-over-bore and some ammo information, I can get you through JBM ballistics data.


I forgot but will tonight. Thanks!


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Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What are you using for sights? Irons, red dot, scope?

Irons can be as little as 1" over bore. Red dots maybe 1.25" to 2" over. Scopes 1.75" to 2.5" over bore.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
Picture of Loswsmith
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I'm using a Nikon Prostaff 2-7. The measurement is 1.25 inches (measuring from bottom of bolt to top of rear scope lens and dividing by 2 which Interwebs says what I needed to do) or 2.5 inches if not.

Hopefully that's what you're looking for.

I use 40 gr. CCI mostly.

Thank you and if that's not right, I can redo.


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Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK, that's enough info to get me going. Even if the webz set you down an incorrect path. The true measurement should be center of bore to center of scope.

Since you gave me the scope model, I went to Nikon's site and found that the eye piece is 44 mm diameter, or 1.73". Divide this by 2, and subtract from 2.5" total. Now I come up with a eyesight height over bore of 1.6". My assumptions in JBM ballistics are:
- height over bore of 1.6"
- air density altitude of 3,000'. Guessing that's a reasonable air density for your shooting, although with such short distances it won't matter all that much.
- muzzle velocity of 1075 fps. Assuming you're bumping up close to Mach 1, but staying a little under.
- CCI standard bullet, per JBM's table of bullet ballistics.

JBM predicts that for a zero of 50 yards, your impact should be .2" above point of aim at 25 yards. Just so you know, the combo of you gun and ammo may not be accurate enough to truly judge an impact of .2" high at 25 yards. Or, it may be. Anyway, just think of being about 1 bullet diameter high at 25 yards, and you're good to go at 50 yards.

FWIW, the above assumptions predict impact at 75 yards being 2.5" below point of aim, and 7.5" below point of at 100 yards.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do believe the 2-7 Prostaff is a centerfire scope, so note that it will be parallax adjusted to 100yds instead of the more common 50 of a rimfire scope. This should give it something around .3 parallax at 50yds. Not a big deal at low power, but could get a little furry at say 15yds if you crank it up to 7 and try to shoot at paper.

At my age, everything is getting blurry all the time anyway. Smile



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 8292 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
OK, that's enough info to get me going. Even if the webz set you down an incorrect path. The true measurement should be center of bore to center of scope.

Since you gave me the scope model, I went to Nikon's site and found that the eye piece is 44 mm diameter, or 1.73". Divide this by 2, and subtract from 2.5" total. Now I come up with a eyesight height over bore of 1.6". My assumptions in JBM ballistics are:
- height over bore of 1.6"
- air density altitude of 3,000'. Guessing that's a reasonable air density for your shooting, although with such short distances it won't matter all that much.
- muzzle velocity of 1075 fps. Assuming you're bumping up close to Mach 1, but staying a little under.
- CCI standard bullet, per JBM's table of bullet ballistics.

JBM predicts that for a zero of 50 yards, your impact should be .2" above point of aim at 25 yards. Just so you know, the combo of you gun and ammo may not be accurate enough to truly judge an impact of .2" high at 25 yards. Or, it may be. Anyway, just think of being about 1 bullet diameter high at 25 yards, and you're good to go at 50 yards.

FWIW, the above assumptions predict impact at 75 yards being 2.5" below point of aim, and 7.5" below point of at 100 yards.


Thank You!!!!!!


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Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
I do believe the 2-7 Prostaff is a centerfire scope, so note that it will be parallax adjusted to 100yds instead of the more common 50 of a rimfire scope. This should give it something around .3 parallax at 50yds. Not a big deal at low power, but could get a little furry at say 15yds if you crank it up to 7 and try to shoot at paper.

At my age, everything is getting blurry all the time anyway. Smile


Mine is advertised as a rimfire scope but . . . I too have the little blurry furries creeping in now. Those bastards.


___________________________________________
Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
I do believe the 2-7 Prostaff is a centerfire scope, so note that it will be parallax adjusted to 100yds instead of the more common 50 of a rimfire scope.

Mine is advertised as a rimfire scope

It doesn't matter if a scope is designed/designated as rimfire or centerfire -- parallax is parallax. With parallax fixed at 100 yards you must be careful on eyebox position for target distances different than 100 yards. This means that it will be more challenging to produce exacting aim and precision impacts at close distances -- to a certain extent at 50 yards, but even more so at 25 yards. A consistent head position on your stock is really important.

Understand that parallax challenges increase as magnification increases. As one approaches 10x magnification, fixed parallax becomes a major pain for precise shooting. So....if your target groups aren't going very well at shorter distances, consider reducing magnification levels.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
Picture of Loswsmith
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
I do believe the 2-7 Prostaff is a centerfire scope, so note that it will be parallax adjusted to 100yds instead of the more common 50 of a rimfire scope.

Mine is advertised as a rimfire scope

It doesn't matter if a scope is designed/designated as rimfire or centerfire -- parallax is parallax. With parallax fixed at 100 yards you must be careful on eyebox position for target distances different than 100 yards. This means that it will be more challenging to produce exacting aim and precision impacts at close distances -- to a certain extent at 50 yards, but even more so at 25 yards. A consistent head position on your stock is really important.

Understand that parallax challenges increase as magnification increases. As one approaches 10x magnification, fixed parallax becomes a major pain for precise shooting. So....if your target groups aren't going very well at shorter distances, consider reducing magnification levels.


Thank you, this I did notice when getting the group for 25 yards but was able to get the sight dialed in for that distance without too much difficulty. Only after I did that did I clue in to the fact that at 50 yards that zero was going to off pretty significantly.


___________________________________________
Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2101 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
Thank you, this I did notice when getting the group for 25 yards but was able to get the sight dialed in for that distance without too much difficulty. Only after I did that did I clue in to the fact that at 50 yards that zero was going to off pretty significantly.

I'm uncertain on the reasons for your challenge on the 50 yard zero.

If the inputs are reasonable in JBM, I've found the output is really quite accurate in predicting live POI. At the distances involved, air density and muzzle velocity take a lot of change to make a difference. But sight height over bore can be a big factor at close distances. I recommend you confirm my estimate of 1.6" -- center of bore to center of scope.

Parallax could be a factor. But there's virtually no way to tell without being there and shooting the gun.

With the numbers input, there should be very little difference in POI at 25 or 50 yards. Assuming a 50 yard zero -- with the input data -- Point of Impact vs. Point of Aim are:
10 yards = .6" below POA
15 yards = .3" below POA
20 yards = POA
25 yards = .2" above POA
30 yards = .4" above POA
35 yards = .4" above POA
40 yards = .4" above POA
45 yards = .2" above POA
50 yards = POA

Working JBM the other way -- let's assume you have a perfect zero at 25 yards. JBM now states the POI at 50 yards will be .5" below POA.
 
Posts: 8072 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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