quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Anything that need batteries is a potential liability.

Okay... And yet you just posted a few posts up that all your rifles have battery-powered red dots and LPVOs.

quote:

Originally posted by bean357:
I have no experience with LPVO scopes. My husband's AR also has a thermal on it. I'd rather ask someone on here that knows instead of reading random reviews.

When I see thermal and the way those rifles are setup it makes me think they are setup specifically for nighttime wild hog or maybe coyote hunting. I was a little surprised to see MN in the location, I was thinking I would see TX, OK, AR, or AZ. I'm just not familiar with what you would hunt at night in MN. The rifles are great, but the thermal optics are not what I would pick for "if you could only have one AR", but as a 2nd or 3rd AR for a specific nighttime hunting purpose.

Just pointing out that illuminated reticles and CCO's run on consumable resources. I'm pretty good about checking mine and carrying extra batteries, but it gets more comlicated than that. The last thing you want is a dead optic when you need it.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Anything that need batteries is a potential liability.

Okay... And yet you just posted a few posts up that all your rifles have battery-powered red dots and LPVOs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,

Both of my ARs have the same optics on them from 15 years ago, Aimpoint CompML3s with LaRue mounts. Yes, smaller more modern RDS models have come out, but I'm used to my old ones and they work perfectly for me. And if SHTF and they fail for some odd reason, this is why my iron sights exist.

I am curious what sort of sight is usable in “total darkness.” If we want to stick with the “most versatile” question, we’re certainly not referring to something like a thermal or night vision sight that’s almost infinitely more battery-dependent than a garden variety Aimpoint or anything similar, not to mention being about as unversatile as imaginable.

If I were 30 (or more) years younger and there was any possibility that I’d have to use an AR for some sort of protracted use in a TEOTWAWKI situation, I’d still prefer an LPVO with good reticle like the SAI models. If not considering the most versatile caveat in a situation like that, however, my CompML3 and a handful of 1/3N batteries would serve very well for a very long time.

As I said earlier, the only stand alone optic I'm aware of that can work day or night is the dual illumination reticle ACOG.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I am curious what sort of sight is usable in “total darkness.” If we want to stick with the “most versatile” question, we’re certainly not referring to something like a thermal or night vision sight that’s almost infinitely more battery-dependent than a garden variety Aimpoint or anything similar, not to mention being about as unversatile as imaginable.

If I were 30 (or more) years younger and there was any possibility that I’d have to use an AR for some sort of protracted use in a TEOTWAWKI situation, I’d still prefer an LPVO with good reticle like the SAI models. If not considering the most versatile caveat in a situation like that, however, my CompML3 and a handful of 1/3N batteries would serve very well for a very long time.

I’m not sure my point about “total darkness” was clear.

I’m reminded of the discussions that we used to have here about luminous night sights. People would complain that they didn’t help find and identify a target: Well yes, that’s true: they don’t. Just as no other nonmagnifying sight does that; finding and identifying a target is not their purpose. Their purpose is to be able to see and achieve proper sight alignment, not to achieve a proper sight picture which involves seeing the target as well as the sight(s).

And one of the things that’s necessary to be able to find and identify a target as well as being able to aim at the target is having enough light or some other usable radiation in the electromagnetic spectrum to make that possible. If it’s totally dark how do we see the target with any sight except with a thermal or night sight which is as not versatile as is possible to imagine?

ibanda,
The Rix works well for me in the day also. We do not have feral hogs here (yet) but they are not far off in the river bottom. Coyotes and raccoons have gotten overpopulated and quite destructive. I am an animal fan since a child, but one cannot simply "relocate" those animals.

SgtGold, yes, those batteries. The only thing I do not like about the Rix is that I cannot hot swap.

The ACOG has a self luminous tritium sight much like pistol night sights. That plus it's fiber optic light gathering system gives you an illuinated sight no matter what.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
As I said earlier, the only stand alone optic I'm aware of that can work day or night is the dual illumination reticle ACOG.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I am curious what sort of sight is usable in “total darkness.” If we want to stick with the “most versatile” question, we’re certainly not referring to something like a thermal or night vision sight that’s almost infinitely more battery-dependent than a garden variety Aimpoint or anything similar, not to mention being about as unversatile as imaginable.

If I were 30 (or more) years younger and there was any possibility that I’d have to use an AR for some sort of protracted use in a TEOTWAWKI situation, I’d still prefer an LPVO with good reticle like the SAI models. If not considering the most versatile caveat in a situation like that, however, my CompML3 and a handful of 1/3N batteries would serve very well for a very long time.

How about that one do-all optic? I like ACOGs, EoTechs and Aimpoints. And Vortex Razors.

quote:

Originally posted by josp:
Of course I don't think the LVPO works in total darkness either.

No day optic works in total darkness. Always must have enough light for target ID.

I have enough experience with thermal to say with some certainty while they are amazing for animals after dark, they are very lacking during the daytime. For a pretty wide variety of reasons.

IndianaBoy,
I misstated that the Rix works "well" in the day. It works OK, whereas the Pulsar is pretty much out of the question for me the daytime. I can only speak for myself with *these* that are currently owned, and the Burris BTS35 that I parted with. I would not choose a thermal for daytime.

Well, because of this thread, when I rebuilt my work gun, I replaced some parts and springs, gave the upper a fresh coat of paint…..and installed a SIG Tango 1x6. Without a RMR. Lots of FoF on the menu for the next several weeks. About to find out (for me) if a 1x6 is really a do it all optic.

Gun is a Daniel lower, BCM 11.5 upper and Dead Air Lazarus.

Since I can't decide on which AR if only one, it makes it difficult to select the optic. Only one might be a DMR type 5.56, a 300 BO pistol, or maybe something in between like a 16" DD M4V7. If I pick the M4V7, it will have to have verified accuracy and need to be good at 200 yards. If it has to be versatile and work at longer ranges, that means an about 1-8X LVPO with an illuminated reticule.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
About to find out (for me) if a 1x6 is really a do it all optic.

Looking forward to the reports.

Theory is better than nothing, but nothing compared to actual experience.

So I didn’t get much range time in this week, but spent a bunch of time doing FoF. To be honest, I think moving to a 1.70 mount would make it easier and narrow the gap between a RDS and the LVPO. The only real peeve I found is in low light, the Tango6 emits a weird bloom on the higher settings. Kinda like the dot feeds down the cross hairs to the inner edge of the tube.

Performance wise, it’s not the giant gap that I thought it would be compared to a RDS. I handed the rifle off to a couple other guys and they agreed it wasn’t that different whe they made their runs. That included runs on paper and against role players.

Thanks. Very interested in further comments.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Comparing the average AR owner to young, vital, active duty military personnel is simply not realistic, and I'm not talking about 2 ounces. I'm talking about lighter being better, and 2 ounces here and 6 ounces there and 'maybe this would be cool to bolt on, too' adds up PDQ.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
I chose a Japanese manufactured, 1-6 LVPO.

Yes, the Trijicon Credo, which is the slightly updated version of my AccuPower 1-4x, and only slightly heavier.

Manufactured by LOW- Light Optical Works in Japan. These are exceptionally fine scopes for the money. Well-built and impressively clear glass. One thing they did with the Credo was to increase illumination efficiency, to get substantially longer battery life.

many many years ago, one of the founding members of my Gunclub told me something,

granted, he was a Smallbore shooter, but his wisdom on a lot of things was valued,


his comment to me, when we were taking a break while shooting was that Unertl built a great scope, very accurate, very repeatable, and one of the industry best,

however a Lyman was just a few ounces lighter, and just as good/accurate,

me, being young at the time, and not knowing any better, asked why go with anything but the best, Unertl,

he shrugged and said they were indeed great scopes, as he had mentioned, but on the ground prone, slung up, and despite a no pulse sling, getting some interference from your heartbeat, a scope a few ounces lighter made a difference,

now granted, you would likely need to be a Master or High Master level shooter to get that, and understand what he meant,

but heavy has its place, and in position, it is not always its place

For one rifle for a home defense role, ACOG.