quote:

Originally posted by depusm12:
Would a 9mm PDW be better for an apartment for home defense?

James

The key detail with a carbine is being able to shoot rifle ammo. Fast, light rounds that will break up, tumble, fragment, or otherwise lose energy in walls and other hard objects. Light 55gr 5.56 out of a 16" barrel can fragment and become nearly harmless in as little as 1-2 uninsulated interior walls.

Pistol rounds traveling significantly slower tend to punch through stuff like sheetrock without much of a care. They will actually penetrate deeper through a house, maintaining more mass and velocity than a rifle round, meaning it stays lethal through more walls.

The same applies to using subsonic loads. 300 blackout subsonics don't perform as well as the supersonic counterparts. They also behave more like a pistol bullet when it comes to penetrating walls and soft cover. Great if you don't want to be heard, but chances are you're not clearing sentries in hostile territory. Add in compatibility/feeding issues when the rounds have big truncated noses to try and get them to expand/perform ballistically (I'm looking at you, Hornady Sub-X).

If you're counting on a firearm for self defense in your home; load supersonic rifle rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Killer Instincts:
10" Sig 516 G2 upper on a KAC SR15 lower, Law Tactical folder, SBA3 brace. I really like a piston in a short 5.56 because of how dirty and hot the DI guns tend to run. It does add some weight though.

Quick tangent - I'm using the same brake as Rustpot, but I'm not as cool as him and don't yet have a Trash Panda for it. Current rocking a Q Plan B adapter which mounts the Cherry Bomb to a SiCo Omega 30. Q's mounting system is the way.

I really like the Cherry Bomb and Trash Panda so far. It's my first suppressor. I have mounts on a few rifles now. This one is my 14.5" 5.56, waiting for the next can and a pinned mount so it can get a real stock. My next stuff will be Dead Air Keymo compatible. So much heavier, but I feel like it's far more robust than most other systems. Q's is great, but I don't know if it's a hard-use option.

I'm considering a PWS MK 111 mod 1 5.56 upper with a 11.85" barrel and a lower with a law tactical folder and a SBA3 brace and Hornaday 75 grain Black ammo specifically designed for SBR's.

James

quote:

The key detail with a carbine is being able to shoot rifle ammo. Fast, light rounds that will break up, tumble, fragment, or otherwise lose energy in walls and other hard objects. Light 55gr 5.56 out of a 16" barrel can fragment and become nearly harmless in as little as 1-2 uninsulated interior walls.

Pistol rounds traveling significantly slower tend to punch through stuff like sheetrock without much of a care. They will actually penetrate deeper through a house, maintaining more mass and velocity than a rifle round, meaning it stays lethal through more walls.

The same applies to using subsonic loads. 300 blackout subsonics don't perform as well as the supersonic counterparts. They also behave more like a pistol bullet when it comes to penetrating walls and soft cover. Great if you don't want to be heard, but chances are you're not clearing sentries in hostile territory. Add in compatibility/feeding issues when the rounds have big truncated noses to try and get them to expand/perform ballistically (I'm looking at you, Hornady Sub-X).

If you're counting on a firearm for self defense in your home; load supersonic rifle rounds.

You’ll see this repeated on the internet, but it’s terrible advice. I’m sorry to call you out, but 1-2 uninsulated walls is laughable. People say this, but they’ve obviously never tested.

Guys, it’s a 55 gr round traveling at 2,200-3,000 fps, it’s not a bb gun. Go test this for yourself. You’ll see 5.56 rounds will easily pass through 5-6 walls (10-12 pieces of dry wall) and still be lethal. That’s a lot of living space in a densely populated area.

A 9mm defensive is about the same. Go do it for yourselves guys. The internet is flat wrong on this one.

I personally would not drop below 10.3” on a 5.56 mm.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

The key detail with a carbine is being able to shoot rifle ammo. Fast, light rounds that will break up, tumble, fragment, or otherwise lose energy in walls and other hard objects. Light 55gr 5.56 out of a 16" barrel can fragment and become nearly harmless in as little as 1-2 uninsulated interior walls.

Pistol rounds traveling significantly slower tend to punch through stuff like sheetrock without much of a care. They will actually penetrate deeper through a house, maintaining more mass and velocity than a rifle round, meaning it stays lethal through more walls.

The same applies to using subsonic loads. 300 blackout subsonics don't perform as well as the supersonic counterparts. They also behave more like a pistol bullet when it comes to penetrating walls and soft cover. Great if you don't want to be heard, but chances are you're not clearing sentries in hostile territory. Add in compatibility/feeding issues when the rounds have big truncated noses to try and get them to expand/perform ballistically (I'm looking at you, Hornady Sub-X).

If you're counting on a firearm for self defense in your home; load supersonic rifle rounds.

You’ll see this repeated on the internet, but it’s terrible advice. I’m sorry to call you out, but 1-2 uninsulated walls is laughable. People say this, but they’ve obviously never tested.

Guys, it’s a 55 gr round traveling at 2,200-3,000 fps, it’s not a bb gun. Go test this for yourself. You’ll see 5.56 rounds will easily pass through 5-6 walls (10-12 pieces of dry wall) and still be lethal. That’s a lot of living space in a densely populated area.

A 9mm defensive is about the same. Go do it for yourselves guys. The internet is flat wrong on this one.

But the FBI is not wrong and put this issue to rest long ago. It is fact that 5.56 tends to overpenetrate less the handgun ammunition.

What FBI report are you referring to? I’m not familiar with it and would love to read it.

So you’re saying that a 5.56 won’t easily penetrate at least 5 walls and still be lethal?

Found this with a quick google search: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZTBPpZk0Mc

It’s crazy that people act like dry wall is bullet proof to a rifle round. My testing of this wasn’t nearly as nicely set up as this guy’s, but it was the same basic idea of what I did. I tested 9mm 124gr +p (was my carry load at the time) out of a G19 too and the differences were negligible.