quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

quote:

Originally posted by cas:


I like it. Looks like it would be good for intergalactic battles with hostile aliens.

It would be great if the Carmal you can buy actually looked like that, but that’s the military version. The US version has been 922r’d up with a longer ugly handguard and AR grip.

I actually prefer the longer handguard. And the ability to swap grips.

I don’t. The moment they offer one that looks like the version posted on top I’m ordering it. (If that happens and I hope it does)

That bottom version looks like every other piston AR/HK416 variant with a slightly tweaked lower and is hardly special or exciting in my eyes.

Why not stand out in a sea of clones and be different? Yeah sure it’s purely an aesthetic critique but why tease us only to bore us with the production example?

It’s like when a car manufacturer teases a beautiful concept then the bean counters and fun sucking committee gets to make alterations. It ends up looking nothing like the concept and it turns people off.

I don’t think you’ll ever see IWI release that original configuration since they would have to redesign the upper receiver part. How the forend system attaches to the upper is different between the OG and US guns, as is the front of the top rail. I don’t picture IWI redesigning the upper.

Now as low as $1,399 on gunbroker.

Reviving this just to say that my LGS got one of these. The owner opted to keep it for himself, as he said it was the first he'd been able to come across, in the confines of the distributors he uses.

I have nothing good to say about the rifle. I am sure it's highly reliable, like most other quality DI or piston rifles. It has fully ambi controls, like many other quality DI and piston rifles. It is absurdly large-bodied, like not many other rifles, with the exception of something like the Beretta ARX, maybe.

It is bigger than any contemporary short or long stroke piston gun I have ever seen/handled: bigger than a Galil ACE, Bren, B&T, SCAR, G36 etc; MUCH bigger than something like a 516 or LWRC. I found it positively unlikeable in almost every way. On paper, and in use, I suppose it's an excellent gun, but it is huge. For something that shoots a .22 projectile, it is borderline obscene. I can't even imagine putting optic/light/laser/switches on it.

The above image doesn't illustrate the width of the gun. The receiver is not just tall; it's friggen wide too.

Looks like ass with the mlok. I'd be a buyer in the original configuration.

Normally whenever there's a foreign military rifle being offered commercially stateside I'd be the first to jump on the chance to buy it...because stuff like that just don't happen very often...but I just can't get past the ARfornification IWI did to it, almost 2 years in and not even a sliver of hint that a limited "classic" or OG version would be offered, something that IWI US has done in the past with the Tavor and X95 series.

As far as what Tim/MAC claims that the version we got is actually a natural progression of what the "finalized" Carmel is suppose to be....Bullshit. Of course he heard it from some guy that supposedly has reliable inside scoop but shall remain unnamed, give me a break. Just look at IWI Israel's (not IWI US) official website and you'll see they still show this rifle configured in the original way, the AR pistol grip is clearly an after thought, no reputable arms mfg would consider that an actual product improvement that wasn't U.S. market/politically driven.

Listen, I'm thankful IWI US made the effort to bring it in at all, but the truth is from a practical, cost/performance stand point it will NEVER surpass the AR15, ever. What it does have an advantage over the AR is the fact that it is NOT an AR. So most people that actually want it is going after its novelty, something cool that isn't just another M4 clone that everyone and their mother already own multiples of.

So to IWI US, stop appeasing to the AR crowd, you're not winning anyone over by slapping on a bunch of MLOK slots, an AR style grip and an A2 hider. If I wanted something that looks and feels like an AR, I'm just going to buy an AR and done with it, why would I waste time on something that's pretending to be what it isn't? Present the model for what it is, tool up to make some proper original style handguards in the U.S., give back the correct barrel profile, IWI US has done that in the past so what's stopping them this go around? Do that and it might actually have a chance of becoming a collector item in 5~7 years.

I got to take a look at a Carmel up close at the Tampa Gun Show. I wasn't super impressed.

It is a chunky rifle for 5.56. The Bren 2 is lighter and gets you basically the same concept in a smaller package.

quote:

Originally posted by HKAngusKL:
I got to take a look at a Carmel up close at the Tampa Gun Show. I wasn't super impressed.

It is a chunky rifle for 5.56. The Bren 2 is lighter and gets you basically the same concept in a smaller package.

The Bren is nicer but more expensive. Ones I saw were about $500 to $700 more. Perhaps the Carmel price is going down due to lack of sales?

If you look at the 14" Bren 2 MS pistol, you are in the same ballpark as the Carmel price wise. The Bren Carbine prices have jumped up to close to 2k, and availability has been limited.

I am seeing mid $1500 range for both the Carmel and longer Bren pistol on drop shipper sites. You are also right that there are deals to be had on the Carmels sitting around.

The 14" Bren 2 is a good candidate for a P+W to get it to 16". 922r compliance parts are also available now.

As an aside, does anyone know whether the barrel interface at the receiver end on the Carmel is aluminum/steel or polymer? I couldn't do much close looking at the gun show. I am wondering because the entire area externally looks like polymer ala the HK g36. If it is, that would be an odd design choice for IWI.

Bren 2 14" with a pin and weld is the way to go. That gets you to the issued Czech military length and the Mlok rails swapped out with some Preston 1913 rails gets you awfully close to the issued config overall. The barrel is also pencil profile vs the carbine being heavy profile, so it's lighter when you're done.