Am I the only one who didn't know about this?
Looks like a significant improvement to conventional AR ammo.

But will it need a new gun?

https://www.range365.com/feder...yrie?CMPID=ENE103017

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can enlighten me....

I am interested but will wait a decade for all the little issues to appear and get fixed.

It is a different chamber from both the .223 and the .22 Nosler. Fatter case, longer neck, heavier bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by guardianangel762:
I am interested but will wait a decade for all the little issues to appear and get fixed.

I was recently at a LR match in New Mexico. Two JP employees shot the 3 day match, both were shooting JP AR's chambered in 224 Valkyrie. Rifles ran great in dirty conditions. Not a complicated wildcat using established/proven stuff. BC of those 90SMK's is impressive for sure, spanks a 77SMK.

Snagged a 224 Valkyrie round, JP guy was handing them out.

6 Dasher/115 Dtac, 224 Valkyrie/90SMK, 223/77smk.

Not a bad looking case! Longish neck. Got the short stubby powder column going on, that's a good thing. Not too terribly different then my silly accurate Dasher.

https://s1.postimg.org/4nqlwjb4fz/IMG_2486.jpg

Two weeks ago at the Team Safari competition, the JP Rifles team used a pair of JP AR-15s chambered in 224 Valkyrie. We could have shot the rifles after the awards ceremony on late on Sunday, but after three days of competition and a 6+ hour drive coming home, I wasn't really in the mood.

Federal's ammo appears to be well made. To me it resembles a 6 Dasher load that has been reduced in all dimensions. The JP team shot really well with it. They told me their 20" barrels produced a muzzle velocity of 2650 fps. They had no cycling issues during the match, and the dust at that location can be challenging for some rifles.

I shot the carbine part of the Team Safari with my 20" barrel AR-15, using Hornady's relatively new load with 73 ELD-M bullets. I get 2820 fps and very good accuracy.

I ran JBM numbers for both loads at 6,000' Density Altitude. Drop and drift in MOA, velocity in Mach.
600 yards:
valkyrie -- 13.5 drop, 3.6 drift, 1.67 M
73 ELDM -- 13.1 drop, 4.6 drift, 1.59 M

800 yards:
valkyrie -- 21.7 drop, 5.2 drift, 1.47 M
73 ELDM -- 21.9 drop, 6.7 drift, 1.33 M

1000 yards:
valkyrie -- 31.6 drop, 6.9 drift, 1.28 M
73 ELDM -- 33.2 drop, 9.3 drift, 1.09 M

The SMK 90 bullet shows noticeably better wind drift than my 73 ELM. Due to the Valkyrie's lower MV, the ELD bullet hangs in there for drop. The big question for someone like me is whether the reduced wind drift values are great enough to justify the cost of another precision upper, scope mount, quality optics, and magazines. I see that as a $3500 minimum investment.

The longest shot I took at Safari was a 12" diamond at 680 yards, with a 15 mph crosswind. I got lucky and hit it with my second shot. On the flip side at a different stage, I burned 20 round mag engaging three targets in the 500-550 yard ballpark, when winds where switching from 8-15 mph between shots.

The valkyrie's performance advantage out to 400-ish yards doesn't justify a change, IMO. Beyond that, it's up to the shooter. For someone who doesn't already own a precision upper, the valkyrie just might make sense. It will be interesting to see what the valkyrie 224 will do over time. Same for the 22 Nosler, which is a similar concept.

There's been several similar 6.8 wildcats around for years. This one is similar to ARP's Yote Smoker (5.56x42). TAC6 (6mmx42) and Six5 (6.5x42) are two other 6.8 wildcats that come to mind. I might buy if it develops a following. But the TAC6 would be nice.

The following is a quote from the article linked in the OP's initial post:
"Loaded with the 90-grain Gold Medal Sierra MatchKing, the cartridge offers as much as 127.88 inches less drop and 68.76 inches less wind drift at 1,000 yards when compared to existing MSR 15 cartridges."

This is a statement worthy of politicians. The obvious source is a spin doctor from the marketing department. Those kind of numbers pretty much require comparing the 90 grain SMK to a 55 grain FMJ bullet. In my case the 90 SMK has about 18" less drop and 25" less wind drift at 1,000 yards than 73 ELD-M. Significant differences, but substantially less than the "...as much as..." line.

I've seen this before -- notably with 6.8 SPCII and 6.5 Grendel. The product designers/marketers compared their newer and heavier bullets to the old 55 ball ammo. Well duh, in such cases 223/5.56 FMJ looks like dog doo. Funny thing, match 69/75/77 bullets make the ballistics for 55 FMJ look pretty stinky at distance, too.

I'm not saying the 224 Valkyrie / 22 Nosler / 6.8 SPCII / 6.5 Grendel / whatever are over rated. Not at all. Each one offers certain types of down-range performance characteristics that are notably superior to the best 223/5.56 loads. Shooters just should just do their own apples to apples comparisons.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Each one offers certain types of down-range performance characteristics that are notably superior to the best 223/5.56 loads. Shooters just should just do their own apples to apples comparisons.

Indeed.
If something is that much better than what it replaced, the facts should be allowed to speak for themselves without embellishment or trying to mislead the ignorant.

Dodo birds comes to mind. Not enough evolution to survive.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
Dodo birds comes to mind. Not enough evolution to survive.

Time will tell if the 224 Valkyrie and the 22 Nosler survive. I think they will, although their following may not be all that strong.

The Valkyrie is backed by Federal ammo. A quick Google search shows rifles/uppers from JP, Larue, LWRC, and Airborne Arms.

The Nosler is of course backed by Nosler ammo. Rifles/uppers are available from Varmageddon (Noveske build), CMMG, and AR Stoner. Nosler listed a few others in the wings, too.

These are fairly strong starts for a new round.

Various levels of commercial success exist with the 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and 300 Blackout rounds. Probably not as much commercial success as the developers/promoters initially hoped, but still sales of rifles and ammo continue.

The Valkyrie & Nosler chamberings likely focus on even smaller market niches -- the true long range AR-15 platform shooter. Personally, I hope they survive and remain strong. Someday, maybe I will own one of these uppers. But for now, the improved ballistics I see with recent 223 ammo works.

I've got a Mega Monolithic upper sitting in a drawer waiting to be built.

I have been through the gamut looking at 6.5 Grendel and 22 Nosler. Both of those offer some advantage but at increased cost for components. The 22 Nosler was pretty easy to rule out.

The 224 Valkyrie does look to be another measure better than the 22 Nosler but I'm not sure if the added cost for ammo and decreased barrel life are worth it, for me.

I'm kind of going the other way with my AR's.

I like shorter barrels and heavier bullets. I look at my AR's as 300 yard guns.

We have so many other great guns/rounds to go out further than that if needed, that I no longer obsess about getting my AR's out to crazy distance.

Frankly, I think this is all marketing hype for guys who don't shoot far out anyways. Just my hunch, but I'd bet most AR shooters in America would be best served with the .300 blk (my favorite round btw).

Of my shooting buddies, myself included, I know very few folks who shoot past 300 yards. Oh sure, we all dream of a 1k yard gun, but I bet most of us just want to say our round/gun if effective at 1k yards rather than do it. Heck, I don't even know where a 1k yard range is to shoot on.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are folks here who love the long range stuff. I'm not saying "no one," I'd never be so presumptuous. I'm simply saying, for me, the idea of a long range AR left my mind years ago. I have one bull barrel AR that I can hit 600 with, but I don't know how much further I can get it...because that's the longest range I have access to.

If I want to go out to 1k, I'd grab a .338 LM or a .308. If I must envision some doomsday scenario, I suppose I'll either sling my Rem 700 on my back or make one of the kiddos carry it in addition to my 300 yard AR.

Federal announced the cartridge specs today. The round hasn't been approved by SAAMI yet, but once it does I suspect it will be super popular. I mean, simply change out your upper on your AR-15, get a few new mags, and you are getting supersonic accuracy to 1300 yards with minimal recoil. The rounds won't be expensive either. What's not to like?

As much as I hate the idea of another caliber, and I've resisted it all until now, including the .300 blackout, I'm going in on this. Should be out in 2018 in force.

https://www.military.com/kitup...ew-224-valkyrie.html

quote:

I like shorter barrels and heavier bullets. I look at my AR's as 300 yard guns.

I hear what you're saying, but this may be a way to deliver heavier bullets with a little more velocity out of 16" barrels as well. Then again, I am intrigued by the prospect of what the cartridge might be able to do from a 20" barrel if only because I like them as much as I like shorter barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
I'm kind of going the other way with my AR's.

I like shorter barrels and heavier bullets. I look at my AR's as 300 yard guns.

We have so many other great guns/rounds to go out further than that if needed, that I no longer obsess about getting my AR's out to crazy distance.

Frankly, I think this is all marketing hype for guys who don't shoot far out anyways. Just my hunch, but I'd bet most AR shooters in America would be best served with the .300 blk (my favorite round btw).

Of my shooting buddies, myself included, I know very few folks who shoot past 300 yards. Oh sure, we all dream of a 1k yard gun, but I bet most of us just want to say our round/gun if effective at 1k yards rather than do it. Heck, I don't even know where a 1k yard range is to shoot on.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are folks here who love the long range stuff. I'm not saying "no one," I'd never be so presumptuous. I'm simply saying, for me, the idea of a long range AR left my mind years ago. I have one bull barrel AR that I can hit 600 with, but I don't know how much further I can get it...because that's the longest range I have access to.

If I want to go out to 1k, I'd grab a .338 LM or a .308. If I must envision some doomsday scenario, I suppose I'll either sling my Rem 700 on my back or make one of the kiddos carry it in addition to my 300 yard AR.

Heavier than 90 grains?

This thing is made for PRS Gas Gun. Nobody is using the 338 LM because, despite the tremendous amount of energy, the extremely efficient and high BC bullets available in 6mm, 6.5mm and to some extent, the 30 caliber have eclipsed the 338.

The 224 looks to achieve what the 6.5 Grendel promised and failed to deliver.

Personally I still may go with a 22" 223 Wylde, but 300 yards is just getting warmed up in the realm of a good AR-15 and a good optic.

The Federal site talks about long range accuracy but there is no mention of energy. What is the muzzle energy of the .224?

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
What is the muzzle energy of the .224?

Based on the numbers the JP guys attained from their 20" ARs, energy in foot pounds:
1403 f/p at muzzle
1144 f/p at 200 yards
924 f/p at 400 yards
736 f/p at 600 yards

This is about 270 f/p than my 20" AR attains from factory 73 ELD-M at these distances.

The 224 Valkyrie case is roughly that of a 6.8 SPC. Factory ammo for 6.8 generally lists muzzle energy in the 1500-1700 f/p range. This is higher than the 224 due to the physics of increased efficiency of the larger bore. And maybe from the the barrel length used in factory ammo specs. If the JP barrels were 24" instead of 20", I guess the muzzle energy would have been closer to 1500 f/p instead of the 1403 f/p that they got.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
The Federal site talks about long range accuracy but there is no mention of energy. What is the muzzle energy of the .224?

This cartridge isn't built for hunters.

It is geared towards guys who care about getting hits on steel.


People will use it for other things, which is great. PRS Gas Gun is the target market.

I'll take a nice bolt action in this cartridge. Sounds fun.