controlled-round feed + 3 position safety + hinged floorplate = kimber, winchester or ruger

The Kimber is super nice if that's where your budget is. The Winchester is also very nice and has a better trigger than the Ruger. The Ruger will be cheapest and comes with a bulletproof integrated scope mounting system.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
controlled-round feed + 3 position safety + hinged floorplate = kimber, winchester or ruger

The Kimber is super nice if that's where your budget is. The Winchester is also very nice and has a better trigger than the Ruger. The Ruger will be cheapest and comes with a bulletproof integrated scope mounting system.

Kimber mountain rifles have blind magazines.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
I picked up a Thompson Center Compass last fall for about $300 after rebate and that came with a Vortex scope! Haven’t shot it yet though it has some great reviews online. Threaded and free floated 5R rifled barrel that is guaranteed 1” MOA and 100 yds. How can you go wrong with that? Well we shall see if I did good soon energy when I get out the rifle range.

The next time you get off The Island and come visit here, would you please tell me what the 5R rifling does for you. How is it better than other types of rifling and how do you see benefit from it? How did you measure that?

From Faxon Firearm's Website:

quote:

5R reduces projectile deformation as it passes through the bore during the firing sequence. By placing the lands opposite of the grooves, the bullets are no longer squeezed on opposite sides ensuring the projectile stays uniform instead of squeezing material into the grooves. More uniform projectile means better accuracy.

Secondly, by sloping the transition to the groove, the barrels become much easier to clean. In a conventionally rifled platform, these corners become depositories for lead and superheated materials left after shooting. Cleaning supplies have a hard time reaching these corners as they are incredibly small. By sloping it, cleaning supplies are easily able to get to the deposits.

Link

I’m curious why “controlled feed” is considered so important. I would understand it if that were the only reliable method of chambering a round from a rifle magazine, but that’s clearly not true. I have four bolt action rifles that I use regularly (two Sako, two Tikka), and that I practice rapid fire with (albeit mostly with the Tikkas). I’ve never experienced chambering problems with any of them, including when single loading through the ejection port without involving the magazines. The only problem I have had is that sometimes ejection is iffy if I draw the bolt back too quickly; at a moderate cadence and speed ejection is reliable every time.

I understand that operating the bolt vigorously is best with fixed blade-type ejectors, but I’ve never seen an explanation why “controlled” chambering is better than systems like Sako’s.

Comments?

Very happy with my 270WIN Tikka T3x Lite Stainless.
Wanted a Sauer 101XT, but it was out of the budget.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I’m curious why “controlled feed” is considered so important. I would understand it if that were the only reliable method of chambering a round from a rifle magazine, but that’s clearly not true. I have four bolt action rifles that I use regularly (two Sako, two Tikka), and that I practice rapid fire with (albeit mostly with the Tikkas). I’ve never experienced chambering problems with any of them, including when single loading through the ejection port without involving the magazines. The only problem I have had is that sometimes ejection is iffy if I draw the bolt back too quickly; at a moderate cadence and speed ejection is reliable every time.

I understand that operating the bolt vigorously is best with fixed blade-type ejectors, but I’ve never seen an explanation why “controlled” chambering is better than systems like Sako’s.

Comments?

Controlled round feed secures/grabs/holds the case on the bolt head. Move the bolt back and forth, case will not come off the head of the bolt until it hits the ejector.

Lion is charging you, turn your rifle sideways (port down) as you crap your pants, rack the bolt....case won't come off the bolt head. Live another day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeX7kt26aek

American Rifle Company control round feed...

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Decker:

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
I picked up a Thompson Center Compass last fall for about $300 after rebate and that came with a Vortex scope! Haven’t shot it yet though it has some great reviews online. Threaded and free floated 5R rifled barrel that is guaranteed 1” MOA and 100 yds. How can you go wrong with that? Well we shall see if I did good soon energy when I get out the rifle range.

The next time you get off The Island and come visit here, would you please tell me what the 5R rifling does for you. How is it better than other types of rifling and how do you see benefit from it? How did you measure that?

From Faxon Firearm's Website:

quote:

5R reduces projectile deformation as it passes through the bore during the firing sequence. By placing the lands opposite of the grooves, the bullets are no longer squeezed on opposite sides ensuring the projectile stays uniform instead of squeezing material into the grooves. More uniform projectile means better accuracy.

Secondly, by sloping the transition to the groove, the barrels become much easier to clean. In a conventionally rifled platform, these corners become depositories for lead and superheated materials left after shooting. Cleaning supplies have a hard time reaching these corners as they are incredibly small. By sloping it, cleaning supplies are easily able to get to the deposits.

Link

I know what the propaganda says; I was asking for empirical data that would support the propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Live another day.

All right, then. I will not rely on my Sako variants (especially the T3 223) when I’m hunting lions and might have to chamber a round with the rifle rotated onto its side.

Actually I knew most of that, sort of, but it’s good to have it explained clearly, so thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Decker:
From Faxon Firearm's Website:

[QUOTE]5R reduces projectile deformation as it passes through the bore during the firing sequence. By placing the lands opposite of the grooves, the bullets are no longer squeezed on opposite sides ensuring the projectile stays uniform instead of squeezing material into the grooves. More uniform projectile means better accuracy.

I have used three different Bartlein 5R barrels on my bolt action rifles -- two in 6.5mm and one in 308. All three barrels are really accurate, however there's something to be said for the action and the chamber cutting, too.

I have very accurate barrels in my ARs, too. Wilsons, which have 6 opposing lands. Kriegers, which have 4 opposing lands. Their actions and chambers are good.

I get the concept of the 5R barrel, and it makes sense to my neanderthal noggin. But yet my 4- and 6-land barrels are also great. Someone with more technical and practical experience may be of help in this area.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I’m curious why “controlled feed” is considered so important. I would understand it if that were the only reliable method of chambering a round from a rifle magazine, but that’s clearly not true. I have four bolt action rifles that I use regularly (two Sako, two Tikka), and that I practice rapid fire with (albeit mostly with the Tikkas). I’ve never experienced chambering problems with any of them, including when single loading through the ejection port without involving the magazines. The only problem I have had is that sometimes ejection is iffy if I draw the bolt back too quickly; at a moderate cadence and speed ejection is reliable every time.

I understand that operating the bolt vigorously is best with fixed blade-type ejectors, but I’ve never seen an explanation why “controlled” chambering is better than systems like Sako’s.

Comments?

Controlled round feed secures/grabs/holds the case on the bolt head. Move the bolt back and forth, case will not come off the head of the bolt until it hits the ejector.

Lion is charging you, turn your rifle sideways (port down) as you crap your pants, rack the bolt....case won't come off the bolt head. Live another day.

I'm not clear on why I would hold my rifle sideways if a lion is charging me. And the chances of a lion charging me is between slim and none and Slim left town. Anyway, in a magazine fed bolt action, if you have the bolt open and turn it upside down, the cartridges should not come out of the magazine. Once you start closing the action the cartridge is pushed forward under the magazine lips and starts entering the chamber before it slide out from under these lips and at that point, if you want to create an issue, you would have to stop going forward and reverse the bolt to let the cartridge loose. I suggest to you that until the cartridge head has been captured by the controlled-feed bolt, the same thing can happen.

Controlled-feed bolts are less desirable for precision rifles because the bolt face is not the same all around the bolt. Furthermore, you cannot toss in a cartridge and close the bolt, all cartridges MUST BE FED from the magazine.

I only want push feed for precision rifles and I eschew controlled feed for anything else, though I do not mind it so much. In decades of shooting bolt rifles, I've never cycled one upside down.

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
controlled-round feed + 3 position safety + hinged floorplate = kimber, winchester or ruger

The Kimber is super nice if that's where your budget is. The Winchester is also very nice and has a better trigger than the Ruger. The Ruger will be cheapest and comes with a bulletproof integrated scope mounting system.

Kimber mountain rifles have blind magazines.

Well then I only want certain Kimbers.

Actually, a blind mag would be ok, just no detachable box. The Open Country rifles are $$$ but look pretty awesome.

As for CRF, my rifles are for hunting and I do sometimes cycle the action in an awkward position and, though slim in my home hunting territory, the possibility of dangerous game does exist. And I do sometimes want to operate the bolt very quickly for a backup shot. And I almost always feed from the magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
controlled-round feed + 3 position safety + hinged floorplate = kimber, winchester or ruger

The Kimber is super nice if that's where your budget is. The Winchester is also very nice and has a better trigger than the Ruger. The Ruger will be cheapest and comes with a bulletproof integrated scope mounting system.

Kimber mountain rifles have blind magazines.

Well then I only want certain Kimbers.

Actually, a blind mag would be ok, just no detachable box. The Open Country rifles are $$$ but look pretty awesome.

As for CRF, my rifles are for hunting and I do sometimes cycle the action in an awkward position and, though slim in my home hunting territory, the possibility of dangerous game does exist.

Would that be the highly dangerous Eastern North America Attack Rabbit?

quote:

And I do sometimes want to operate the bolt very quickly for a backup shot. And I almost always feed from the magazine.

With a CRF, how could you not feed from the magazine?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

I understand that operating the bolt vigorously is best with fixed blade-type ejectors, but I’ve never seen an explanation why “controlled” chambering is better than systems like Sako’s.

Comments?

Sako's now ARE Control Round Feed with Fixed ejectors (M85's).

quote:

originally posted by NikonUser:

Controlled-feed bolts are less desirable for precision rifles because the bolt face is not the same all around the bolt. Furthermore, you cannot toss in a cartridge and close the bolt, all cartridges MUST BE FED from the magazine.

Most Modern CRF rifles CAN be single loaded. It's just a matter of having enough extractor clearance on the claw feed actions. Having to be fed from the magazine box is mostly only true with the old Military actions.

As far as not as good for precision rifles maybe you should read a few reviews on the Mausingfield action. Considered by many to be the finest custom action for PRS rifles etc.

I'd rather have a good push feed action than a badly set up CRF rifle but a well set up CRF action like a Mausingfield is something really special, especially in a hunting rifle..........dj

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Sako's now ARE Control Round Feed with Fixed ejectors (M85's).

Good to know.

Not that I’m going to buy one, but good to know.

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:
I forgot to mention the Kimber Hunter, it’s basicslly the same as the Montana (same barrel, trigger, action) but comes in a plastic stock with a removable magazine. They can be had for around 700 dollars. The composite stock from kimber costs I believe 520.00 if you call kimber and send the rifle in so the price pretty much directly reflects a Montana without the composite stock.

I’m actually looking to get one of these to start an incredibly ultralight build, it’s a cheaper way to start the project than to buy a Montana. Since the stock will get switched and the barre chopped.

The hunter rifles get good reviews and all the new kimbers have a sub MOA guarantee.

I have handled this rifle as well, and it will be my next rifle purchase!

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

Would that be the highly dangerous Eastern North America Attack Rabbit?

Cute

quote:

With a CRF, how could you not feed from the magazine?

I can single feed all my CRF Rugers and Winchesters. Maybe you should see some of this new fangled technology...

quote:

Originally posted by pepsiblue:

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:
I forgot to mention the Kimber Hunter, it’s basicslly the same as the Montana (same barrel, trigger, action) but comes in a plastic stock with a removable magazine. They can be had for around 700 dollars. The composite stock from kimber costs I believe 520.00 if you call kimber and send the rifle in so the price pretty much directly reflects a Montana without the composite stock.

I’m actually looking to get one of these to start an incredibly ultralight build, it’s a cheaper way to start the project than to buy a Montana. Since the stock will get switched and the barre chopped.

The hunter rifles get good reviews and all the new kimbers have a sub MOA guarantee.

I have handled this rifle as well, and it will be my next rifle purchase!

I’ve got a few buddies with them and they have all been great shooters, they are honestly a really nice rifle for the $$$ the guys I know who got them all did so because they could finally add a true mountain rifle to their collections for 1/2 the price of some.

You can actually pop the pad off the stock and scrape out the bell insert and drop another 5-7oz of weight off the rifle. One of the guys I know did that and put a leupold vx2 ultralight and his rifle is just over 6lbs, shoots lights out too.

Like I said, I do t even need one but I want to get one to start a project with.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I've been speaking with a few guys at my Club, and one of them has a Kimber Hunter he offered to bring down Saturday to try. He also just got a Mossberg MVP-LC chassis gun in .308 that he wants to get sighted in. So, should be an interesting morning.

Both are a little more than I wanted to spend, but depending on how they shoot we'll see...

quote:

Originally posted by GCE61:
Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I've been speaking with a few guys at my Club, and one of them has a Kimber Hunter he offered to bring down Saturday to try. He also just got a Mossberg MVP-LC chassis gun in .308 that he wants to get sighted in. So, should be an interesting morning.

Both are a little more than I wanted to spend, but depending on how they shoot we'll see...

I’m interested in hearing your thoughts after shooting the Kimber Hunter rifle.