good to know that the stock maker will give you some scraps to test ,

I can highly recommend using a clear epoxy penetrating sealer for your first couple of coats and then using sanded in Tung oil finish on top of it. Properly done you can have a very well permanently sealed wood and a nice looking oil finish that's "IN" the wood and not on it.

If you can find it read about Davenport Sterlings method for sanding in an oil finish but modify it by first sealing it with the penetrating epoxy sealer. It will not only seal the wood better but will also save a couple sanding in coats. Pics to follow.......

Well pics would follow if I could upload them. How are members showing pics now if someone doesn't mind reminding me. My old third party site is Kaput.

When I was building custom stocks I used this:
Arm R Seal
Always got incredible results.
FWIW!

Lately I've been playing around with wood finishing as well. Current experiment is hard wax over oil (Tru-oil). I like the gloss finish that the oil produces, but want it a tad less "grabby". Hopefully a wax overcoat will modulate that stickiness. Got one test piece in play, but I think you have to wait a few days for the wax to harden fully. We will see...

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I like the gloss finish that the oil produces, but want it a tad less "grabby". Hopefully a wax overcoat will modulate that stickiness.

How long did you wait for it to dry? It really shouldn't be sticky/grabby.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I like the gloss finish that the oil produces, but want it a tad less "grabby". Hopefully a wax overcoat will modulate that stickiness.

How long did you wait for it to dry? It really shouldn't be sticky/grabby.

I have one piece that's been dried for several months, so it's completely cured. It's just a slight sense of grab, probably most people wouldn't even notice, I'm just picky. [see note below]

I could use it the way it is right now, but I'm interested in trying how the wax works. Should be harder than the oil finish alone, and also provide additional protection.

[I'm actually experimenting on wood martial arts weapons, that's why the amount of "grab" is so noticeable. Some weapons like a jo-staff have to slide quickly when you want it to, as you trade ends so often. Bokken swords not so much.

It's kind of like the difference between phosphate-coated mags and traditional blued mags. The phosphate looks more tac, but really the blued jobs eject faster and smoother. It's a small but noticeable difference.]

I've had good results with tung oil (Milk's), the dark one. If you don't want to change color, and want a shinny type finish, you might try Linspeed oil.

quote:

Originally posted by provident:
I've had good results with tung oil (Milk's), the dark one. If you don't want to change color, and want a shinny type finish, you might try Linspeed oil.

Did you read the rest of the thread?

Linspeed is a BLO product, and inferior to Tung oil.

There are some key points here, which are:

I've got a lot of experience in woodworking, and refinishing stocks, particularly with Tung oil.

My OP addresses my interest in finding an even tougher finish, which is why I was mulling over Bona. Water based urethanes have improved a lot over the years, but in the recent past there was a "dip" in quality due to the whole "Low VOC" thing going on.

In successive posts, I've discussed how I'm leaning towards Varnish, what type, and why. Primarily, this is about laminated stocks.

As far as BLO and products related to it, why to use it is this: It offers some protection to wood, is relatively easy to use, and easy to touch up. As I mentioned, it's inferior to Tung, and can yellow and/or get gross easily, depending on what BLO product you've used and your environment/usage of the weapon. Its strongest asset is that it is hard to screw up the application, and easy to recover. Beyond that, overall it is the low rung on the ladder of protective finishes as far as toughness and moisture resistance. Add a laminate stock and it is ruled out completely.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

I have one piece that's been dried for several months, so it's completely cured. It's just a slight sense of grab, probably most people wouldn't even notice, I'm just picky. [see note below]

I could use it the way it is right now, but I'm interested in trying how the wax works. Should be harder than the oil finish alone, and also provide additional protection.

[I'm actually experimenting on wood martial arts weapons, that's why the amount of "grab" is so noticeable. Some weapons like a jo-staff have to slide quickly when you want it to, as you trade ends so often. Bokken swords not so much.

It's kind of like the difference between phosphate-coated mags and traditional blued mags. The phosphate looks more tac, but really the blued jobs eject faster and smoother. It's a small but noticeable difference.]

After that long, it must be dry, unless you live in a rainforest. About the only other thing that would give it "grab" is exposed grain, which isn't necessarily rough, but not exactly smooth. A coat of wax can do the job, there are lots of choices in wax as well.

In the case of a martial arts weapon, oil finish is the right direction due to the abuse, which in this case a hard or synthetic finish would actually do worse at. The hardness that Tung can achieve might actually be the wrong direction, except as a base sealcoat. Over which a more easily touched up finish and wax is applied.

Gun stocks certainly get handled, and knocked around some, but practice swords and staffs are another level of punishment. I'd be inclined to give a product like Butchers Bowling Alley Wax or Renaissance Wax a try.

Since "protecting the finish" itself is a non starter, sealing the wood and having the right hand feel is all you need, it's a wax of some kind probably.

Because a sword/staff is a relatively simple shape, I suppose you could try an epoxy coating, but I wager that is tooo hard.

^^Nice, thank you!

 
On my CaneMaster canes (which I now need), they have a genuine Tung oil finish which I protect with Renaissance Wax. I've also tried an old standby, which used to be called Butcher's Wax but was sold out to Johnson's Wax. The original company is still making it and marketing it as Bowling Alley wax, which was the main use of the product. As you can imagine, it is quite durable. Just doesn't work well for a cane in your hand.
 

What does anyone think of MINWAX "Paste Finishing Wax"?

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
What does anyone think of MINWAX "Paste Finishing Wax"?

Never had cause to use it, either Butchers or Renaissance Wax has done the jobs needed. The MSDS for it makes it seem like a less friendly version of Butchers. or now simply Bowling Alley Wax as henryaz has pointed out.

I do know that both of the waxes I've used are safe handling, as I've had them on a variety of wood and metal items over the years, tools, firearms, furniture, everything short of salad bowls practically.

After doing some digging and staying to brush/wipe on finish, I'm going to sample these:

Total Boat Gleam Spar Varnish

Old Masters Super Varnish

Rust Oleum Marine Spar Varnish

Epifanes Clear Varnish

I selected each of these for their non-friendly chemical composition, and claims of clarity. We'll see how the samples turn out.

Some of my test samples.



I'm also interested in doing a couple samples with regular Tung oil, i.e. no varnish. Someone mentioned that Tung oil is better for MA weapons vs. Danish or Tru-oil, which contain varnishes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kkina,

I have a ruger 10/22 with a walnut stock I bought a few years ago the bluing was nice but the stock finished looked pretty bad. I took one look at it and saw no issues with stripping it and refinishing. I have a cabinet shop and I spray Lacquer all the time , it was easy to do and has held up well. if I ever have an issue I can simply re spray it.

I posted a couple threads about this a couple years back.
Use the Spar Urethane.
It takes a couple days to cure but I've done a number of rifle stocks (2 I still own & use) the rest for customers who love the durability and zero maintenance.
Don't get me wrong I love the old school stuff but go with a durable solution.



My Remington

















My Mauser

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GrumpyBiker,

OK, I think I've hit the mix I like. And it's relatively simple- tung oil. I've used BC Tru-oil extensively in the past, and liked it, but for martial arts weapons find it a bit on the sticky side. Tru-oil contains tung oil, but also has varnishes, probably where the stickiness comes from.

Someone mentioned how they prefer tung oil for MA weapons, so I decided to try. The shoto on top has been sealed, 2 layers of tung oil (Minwax Tung Oil Finish), and some buffing out with BC Stock Sheen and Conditioner.

The tanto below underwent the same process, except with Tru-oil instead of tung. Noticeable difference. The tung finish is more satiny, goes on thinner, and is definitely less sticky. Slides readily through my hands, but is not too slippery. It slides when I want, grabs when I want. I love it when the best solution is also one of the simplest.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
OK, I think I've hit the mix I like. And it's relatively simple- tung oil. I've used BC Tru-oil extensively in the past, and liked it, but for martial arts weapons find it a bit on the sticky side. Tru-oil contains tung oil, but also has varnishes, probably where the stickiness comes from.

Someone mentioned how they prefer tung oil for MA weapons, so I decided to try. The shoto on top has been sealed, 2 layers of tung oil (Minwax Tung Oil Finish), and some buffing out with BC Stock Sheen and Conditioner.

The tanto below has the same process, except using Tru-oil instead of tung. Noticeable difference. The tung finish is more satiny, goes on thinner, and is definitely less sticky. Slides readily through my hands, but is not too slippery. It slides when I want, grabs when I want. I love it when the best solution is also one of the simplest.

Just be aware, tung oil finishes such as minwax aren't pure tung oil, but contain varnishes and other chemicals. Pure tung oil is almost syrupy in consistency, and usually the first two coats are cut with mineral spirits to aid in penetration, then finished with 5-15 coats depending on how much work you want to do.