Greetings all. Now that everyone is talking about lever rifles, I'm thinking of a scout rifle. I simply like the concept. What I'm looking is the Ruger Scout rifle . My dilemma is what caliber. Pros for the 223/5.56 include already have the caliber, easy recoil. Pros of the .308 include better caliber for larger game hunting. Both are suitable for hd which is the main purpose. I'm leaning to the 223/5.56, but want those with more experience to tell me what I'm missing . Thanks.

Also, I do have a 223 suppressor, so, there's that.

.308 for sure

If you want to be true to the scout rifle concept then .308 is certainly the way to go.
But......5.56/223 is easier and cheaper to shoot and Bud’s has them available new for $609. Yep, $609.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/ca...223_gunsite_scout_bl

I’m fortunate in having several bolt action rifles, but if you’re going to have just one, the answer depends on how you intend to shoot the rifle.

If you might use it for big game hunting, a few times, occasionally, or maybe every couple of years, then 308 is the obvious choice regardless of your other purposes.

If, however, it’s just for home defense (more about that in a bit) and practice to become more proficient, 223 is far better. Less recoil means you can get more out of your sessions, and of course with the right ammunition it’s much less expensive. Ruger seems to be one of the few companies that understands that such guns these days should be capable of firing 5.56mm NATO ammunition safely in addition to 223 Remington. Some inexpensive 223 is available, but 5.56 gives many more options. I have a Tikka T3 in 223 and when I go to the range to shoot dot drills, I easily go through 50-100 rounds. I would not want to do that with a 308.

Although a bolt action rifle can obviously be used for defensive purposes, there are also obviously better choices. I’m no fan of long guns for self-defense inside most residences, and a bolt action would be my least favorite. But you didn’t ask that question, so I hope you enjoy your choice.

If you're sticking to Col. Cooper's original definition of a Scout Rifle, then it should be in .308.

He did state that 7mm-08 was acceptable, if you're in a country where .308 isn't available due to laws against civilian possession of military calibers.

And .243 was also acceptable, if needed for a small-framed or young shooter.

308 gets my nod

If you want to buy a scout-type rifle, then just buy it. Justifying its purchase as HD weapon makes no sense -- unless your home is a ranch, surrounded by hundreds or thousands of acres of open land.

As sigfreund states, the recoil of a 223 is easier to control. Depending on the load, 308 recoil in foot pounds is 4 to 6 times that of a 223. If you don't practice with a 308, you won't be comfortable controlling the rifle. I can't imagine very many people willing to properly train with a 308 in HD conditions/positions.

Bolt actions rifles are far from ideal for HD. I have 4 bolt actions in different calibers and I shoot them a lot. They would be my last choice for HD.

A semi auto carbine is much better choice for HD weapon. As in a 9/40/45 pistol caliber carbine. As in a 223 -- AR, bullpup, Mini 14, or something similar. Given that you have a 223 suppressor, I'm guessing you already have some kind of AR-ish pistol or carbine. This is a much better option than a scout.

...but how else does one get Cooper cred but own a scout rifle

I don't have a scout rifle but if you want to go a little bigger than .223 without too much recoil, .243 is a very versatile caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by TRshootem:
...but how else does one get Cooper cred but own a scout rifle

Own a AR and get "Stoner cred".

Take said AR to Gunsite Academy for a week or two and get "Cooper cred".

Then train, practice, compete. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Real "cred".

“"The general-purpose rifle will do equally well for all but specialized hunting, as well as for fighting; thus it must be powerful enough to kill any living target of reasonable size. If you insist upon a definition of 'reasonable size', let us introduce an arbitrary mass figure of about 1,000 lb (454 kg)”

IMHO this original Jeff Cooper quote pretty much removes the 223/5.56 from being valid to the concept of the original Scout Rifle. Yea Yea 22lr have killed elephants, a 223 can kill a 1000lb animal but they are hardly ideal for such whereas the 308, 7-08, 6.5 Creedmoor and MAYBE the 243 would be. In my mind skip the 243 and choose somewhere in the 308 to 6.5 range. The 308 is awesome because cheap mil ammo is available for practice and the 30 cal has great bullets available. The 6.5 Creedmoor kicks less and shoots flatter and is available in a sweet Ruger Gunsite model. I’m going to hunt with my 6.5 Creedmoor Ruger Gunsite model next season but I can’t argue with 308 since I’ve hunted with a 308 Steyr Scout for years. Either is a fantastic rifle IMO but I’d have little use for a 223 Scout. YMMV......

At the risk of offending some 'scout rifle' concept guys, I would suggest that - aside from not being an AR - there is nothing a scout rifle in .223 can do that an AR pattern rifle can't do better.

If you are dead-set on that caliber, but equally dead-set on a non-AR, I would advise a Mini-14. It does most of what many scout rifles do, but it runs the bolt for you.

If the main pourpose is ‘HD’, and you don’t live on a 1000 acre ranch, I could see keeping it modest as a 223.

The 308 is a great chambering, tight, close quarters, the 223 is plenty. Of course it would depend on your particulars, and if you have other uses in mind.

We have an M1A ‘Scout Squad’ in 308 that does great. It also goes deer hunting at times.

quote:

Originally posted by bionic218:
At the risk of offending some 'scout rifle' concept guys, I would suggest that - aside from not being an AR - there is nothing a scout rifle in .223 can do that an AR pattern rifle can't do better.

Agreed.

As stated earlier by fritz, if you want a scout rifle, get one. They're fun, handy rifle. But don't try to justify it by claiming that it's the "best" for whatever purpose. Especially for home defense, where an AR or other semiauto is far superior to a bolt action rifle.

Rifles (especially semiauto rifles) and optics have come a long way since the early 1980s...

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by bionic218:
At the risk of offending some 'scout rifle' concept guys, I would suggest that - aside from not being an AR - there is nothing a scout rifle in .223 can do that an AR pattern rifle can't do better.

Agreed.

As stated earlier by fritz, if you want a scout rifle, get one. They're fun, handy rifle. But don't try to justify it by claiming that it's the "best" for whatever purpose. Especially for home defense, where an AR or other semiauto is far superior to a bolt action rifle.

Agree that in 223 there's no real advantage in a Scout rifle. As far as a Scout rifle being "best" at anything you are missing the point. The Scout Concept is of an all-around rifle not of one that is the best at any one thing. It's powerful enough to hunt up to anything short of dangerous game, accurate to a few hundred yards, and light and handy enough to be used for Self defense in a pinch. It's not supposed to be the best hunting rifle, sniper rifle, or self defense rifle. It's designed to be reasonably capable in all of the above.

You wouldn't want to be shooting Elk at 300yds with an AR but a 308 Scout would be perfectly adequate, You wouldn't want to use a 13.5lb sniper rifle with a 6-24 power scope for home defense but a 308-6.5 Scout would be adequate with it's lower powered optic. Any time something is designed to fill multiple functions it's not going to be the very best at all of them......

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Agree that in 223 there's no real advantage in a Scout rifle. As far as a Scout rifle being "best" at anything you are missing the point. The Scout Concept is of an all-around rifle not of one that is the best at any one thing. It's powerful enough to hunt up to anything short of dangerous game, accurate to a few hundred yards, and light and handy enough to be used for Self defense in a pinch. It's not supposed to be the best hunting rifle, sniper rifle, or self defense rifle. It's designed to be reasonably capable in all of the above.

You wouldn't want to be shooting Elk at 300yds with an AR but a 308 Scout would be perfectly adequate, You wouldn't want to use a 13.5lb sniper rifle with a 6-24 power scope for home defense but a 308-6.5 Scout would be adequate with it's lower powered optic. Any time something is designed to fill multiple functions it's not going to be the very best at all of them......

I didn't miss the point. I'm well acquainted with the point of the Scout Rifle concept.

I stand by my statement. The Scout Rifle isn't even the best for the "all-around rifle" purpose anymore. The AR platform has surpassed that.

And the OP specifically stated that he wanted a Scout Rifle for the purpose of home defense, a specific purpose for which the Scout Rifle is even more clearly outclassed by an AR rifle.

As for the elk scenario, you seem to be forgetting that "AR" doesn't necessarily just mean .223/5.56... No, I wouldn't shoot an elk at 300 yard with an AR in 5.56. But I'd shoot an elk at 300 yards with an AR in .308/7mm-08/6.5 Creedmoor/etc. (All of which are Scout Rifle calibers.)

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. A .308 Scout Rifle may be better than a 5.56 AR in some ways, like in your elk scenario. But a 5.56 AR is a better choice than a 5.56 scout rifle, and a .308 AR is a better choice than a .308 scout rifle.

Back in the days of 10-12 pound .308 ARs, you could at least argue that the Scout Rifle was lighter. But there isn't even a weight savings these days, with various companies coming out with new pattern .308 ARs in the 7ish to 8ish pound range, the same weight range as Scout Rifles.

Again, they're fun, handy rifles. I enjoy scout rifles. You just can no longer claim that they're superior to an AR (in a comparable caliber) for any purpose, even an all-around "jack of all trades" purpose.

Some states don't allow Semi-Auto rifles for hunting.......

And legal or not there are quite a number of places where hunting with an AR of any caliber is seriously frowned upon whereas a Scout rifle would be admired. I strongly disagree with them but it is a fact of life. Hunt with an AR and you won't be invited back, sad but true.

And?

There are areas where you can't hunt with a Scout Rifle, like parts of Iowa, Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.

That's beside the point.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
And?

There are areas where you can't hunt with a Scout Rifle, like parts of Iowa, Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.

That's beside the point.

Those are places you can't hunt with ANY rifle as in Shotgun only. The point is there are places you can hunt with rifles but not Semi-Autos i.e. where I hunt in PA. And there are also places where semi auto's are Legal but unfortunately frowned upon.

I've hunted with AR's, Scar-17's, H&K 91 and Scout Rifles and for Hunting I find the handling of my Steyr Scout to be far superior. I think Scout rifles are superior tools for hunting and I've used both. For Self defense the semi-autos would of course be far superior.

I really like the scout as a utility rifle. It's light and has enough power in 308 to be adequate for most tasks. I have a Steyr which is a fun little gun albeit pricey. I certainly do not think the Scout is the end all be all of Jack of all trades guns as I agree an AR is a much better fit but it is certainly a handy little gun.