This'll be for a .308 punching holes in paper at 100yd, or maybe gongs at 500. I'm a noob wearing bifocals. LOL Budget of say $500-800 (depends on how much I like it, much like the Bergara LOL). I prefer the math of MOA to mils. Bonus points if I can get a nice military discount (like Vortex).

So far I'm leaning towards the Vortex Viper HS-T, but I find t odd that the reticle "works" at 18x instead of its max magnification.

Also am considering the Leupold VX-3i LRP SF.

Already have Seekins base and 30mm rings.

Go!!

I found a Sightron III in 6-24X a few years back for $600 and it's been on 3 different precision rifles....Works just fine. Good , repeatable adjustments, tracks fine as well.

Last year someone had a sale on their 8-32X and I bought one of those. Same deal...A lot of good optics for not a lot of money.

Sightron III...3 not II , 2.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FN in MT,

I have and love my leupold. I use it on my 308, for similar. I'm not the best shot, but I will say this, the leupold from my usage, you will want a good base. I was sucking until I got my bipod, because of the jump of the rifle.

I have no experience with the scope models you list.

The Vortex Viper appears to have reticle in the second focal plane ("SFP"). For all SFP scopes with reticles which have elevation & windage hash marks, the hash marks are only calibrated for one magnification level. First focal plane ("FFP") reticles have elevation & windage hash marks which are calibrated for all magnification levels. You should do some webz searching to understand the differences between SFP and FFP reticles, consider your type of shooting, then narrow your scope purchase options.

Sooner or later you will find posts on the webz which state a FFP is better for ranging. Which is true, but reticle ranging is used about as often as Joe average American gets a blind date with the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue cover model. Reticle hash marks are very useful for wind holds and for elevation holds (for those of us who do reticle-based elevation holds).

Make certain you have adjustable parallax on your scope. If you truly will be bouncing between 100 and 500 yard targets, a zero stop feature is really useful. Quality bifocals aren't an issue with quality scopes. ED glass is much better than non-ED glass.

IMO one of worst things a shooter can do is spend good money on a quality rifle system, then pinch pennies on the aiming system for said rifle. The scope is what allows us to aim the rifle.

Don't get hung up on either MOA or mils being the easier system until you know how to use a scope for elevation and wind dialing/holding. Regardless of whether experienced shooters use MOA or mils, they don't think about inches or centimeters to obtain elevation for a target. Once they know their muzzle velocity, bullet type, and atmospheric conditions, the values from a ballistic program take over.

For example, let's use my 308 with Federal GMM 175 at my normal altitude and temperature, for a 500 yard target. From my zero at 100 yards, I need one of the following to obtain elevation for a 500 yard gong, and windage for a 10 mph cross wind:
MOA -- 10.75 elevation and 3.0 windage
or
mils -- 3.2 elevation and .9 windage

I don't care about elevation or windage in inches -- even though my ballistics program lists them at around 56" and 15", respectively. The sooner you drop the thoughts of inches with mils/MOA and begin thinking in angular measurement at the target, the sooner you will understand down range ballistics.

If'in you're shooting at known distances, FFP versus SFP makes no difference. Neither does MOA versus MILS. I like MILS as its base 10. Again as Fritz says, once you know the parameters, the rest is a bit of dial twisting.

I will says that many on FFP scopes, at low mag, the reticle gets rather small.

I have a Gen I Viper SFP and its fine to my eyes.

A decent scope should be available within you budget.

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:
If'in you're shooting at known distances, FFP versus SFP makes no difference.

If the shooter has correctly dialed the elevation for a single known distance, then FFP/SFP may not make any difference. The challenges with SFP occur if:

- The shooter wants to use the reticle for an accurate wind hold. With SFP, this must be done with the scope zoomed to the factory-designed magnification. Or with the SFP, the shooter can use a different magnification power, then mentally adjust for the relative magnification. For example, if the factory determined the 1 MOA hash marks are accurate at 20x, the shooter can zoom down to 10x and mentally double the value of the hash marks to 2 MOA. Challenges occur if the shooter feels that a magnification of, say, somewhere between 11 power and 19 power is better for breaking the shot. It now becomes a guessing game for the value of hash marks.

- The shooter wants to use the reticle for elevation holds, when switching between targets. Again, the best accuracy occurs when the scope's magnification is set at the factory's designated power. I will note that not all that many shooters use reticles for hold overs, but interest in doing so is increasing. The increasing availability and use of Horus-type reticles shows this.

The more a person shoots at ranges with targets that are of known distance, with limited numbers of targets at different distances, and with limited winds -- the more useful a SFP reticle is. Should a person wish to play the steel match game in variable wind conditions, a FFP pretty much becomes mandatory.

I agree that FFP isn't perfect in all situations. The FFP reticle's hash marks remain constant in size, relative to a given target. Thus as we decrease magnification, the reticle shrinks accordingly. These shrinking reticles can be an irritation when a relatively high magnification scope is expected to perform well at its lowest powers. IMO a zoom factor of 2.5 to 3 times is about the practical limit of a FFP reticle.

In other words, take my FFP 5-25x scope that has a very useful reticle for wind/elevation holds at 25x. It works fine all the way down to 10x. From 8x to 10x I find it challenging to use the reticle for holds. From 5x to 7x the reticle is good for a central aim point, but virtually worthless for wind/elevation holds.

No zoom range and no reticle configuration is optimal for all shooters. The OP should careful consider his primary needs for the scope, then look at the features that best fit those needs. If the OP only wants to punch paper at 100, and to ring steel at 500, then a SFP scope could fill his needs, and likely at a lower cost than a comparable FFP scope.

Some heavyweights have already weighed in to this post making it scary to offer any advice but my neighbor and shooting buddy has the HS-T you reference and I have shot many rounds through his .308 between 100 and 500 yards with that scope. It works just fine for that.

With continued research you will find people who have had problems with that scope but Vortex has a lifetime warranty and great customer service. I am not personally familiar with any failure of that scope.

I have been tempted to purchase that scope on several occasions just to have one around as a backup or as a loaner scope for friends who want to go shoot but show up at the range with an unmagnified optic.

All that to say, it fits the need you mention very well.

henryrifle

I personally would not buy Vortex.

A leupy VX-5 or 6 would be the way to go in my opinion.

Just a suggestion but if you will look at the next 9 or 10 pages of topics in this forum you will find about 8 or 9 discussions of scopes and what they do and cannot do and other interesting tidbits from some additional heavy hitters in the shooting world as well as those you have already heard from. Start by reading NikonUser' primer on scopes on page 7, or at this link https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/4890078914
This will help you digest what you have been told.