quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

All you red dot fan boys are wrong.

Would be nice if saying it made it so, but if you actually tested it, you would be totally wrong.
Try running any good range (shoot house) stage the simulates this and you will change your mind.

Better yet, do it in the dark FoF with Simunition in the same shoot house.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Sorry.

All you red dot fan boys are wrong.

1X4, all the way.

I thought you were joking. Then I realized you weren't.

1-4 sucks in a dark house.

On my property I have need for some magnification, so I have a 16" with a 1-6 and a 11.5 with a Aimpoint T-2 and 3x magnifier.

For anything dark or indoors the RDS would get the grab (and likely have the 3x off already).

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:


1-4 sucks in a dark house.

A quality 1-4 is no different than a red dot on 1x.
But if the rifle's sole purpose is in the house, then buy a not.

My house isn't big enough to need 4x.... or a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

1-4 sucks in a dark house.

A quality 1-4 is no different than a red dot on 1x.

Except you are looking through a tube 8-10 inches long with a LPV optic, which restricts eye relief and positioning, especially when compared to a RDS.

Unless there has been some advancement in the field of physics that I'm unaware of.

Will it matter? Depends on the shoot, the LPV, and the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Sorry.

All you red dot fan boys are wrong.

1X4, all the way.

I'm a LPV fan, all the way around.

For a 'house gun'? Red dot all the way.


I will add though, for the comments about a LPV vs. Red dot in a dark house. If you have a white light, like you should, either one will work well. Even without illumination on the 1-X optic.



Now if you have ONE rifle that you do everything with. I would choose a good LPV over just a red dot.

Since the OP was asking specifically about an optic for close-up shooting...... I would pick a red dot given his criteria.

For years, my all-around AR had a 1-4x Trijicon on it with the green triangle. I was very happy with it for both SD and at the range.

Then, I bought three ARs when the '16 election was looking pretty dire. The pair of 6920s have Aimpoint PROs and my MK12 has a 1-6x Vortex .

For SD and shorter range (e.g. more dynamic shooting on multiple targets under 100 yards), I much prefer the Aimpoint PRO to either the 1-4x Trijicon or the 1-6x Vortex.

My 1x hopes have LOTS-O-eye relief. What kind of eye relief problems are you having? Do you have a stock that has a foot and a half of adjustment or something?

I generally don't change the position of my scopes or red dots once I settle of a spot and sight them in, so I don't see how that's an issue either. Are you going to move your dot mid house or food court clearing?


And in truth, if you're talking about actual darkness, either a dot or a scope is going to turn into an occluded gun sight anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
My 1x hopes have LOTS-O-eye relief. What kind of eye relief problems are you having? Do you have a stock that has a foot and a half of adjustment or something?

I generally don't change the position of my scopes or red dots once I settle of a spot and sight them in, so I don't see how that's an issue either. Are you going to move your dot mid house or food court clearing?


And in truth, if you're talking about actual darkness, either a dot or a scope is going to turn into an occluded gun sight anyway.

Considering proper target identification, you shouldn't be taking a shot in the house without a white light. Lots of stories out there of unexpected family members being shot in the dark.

Flashlights are cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
My 1x hopes have LOTS-O-eye relief. What kind of eye relief problems are you having? Do you have a stock that has a foot and a half of adjustment or something?

I generally don't change the position of my scopes or red dots once I settle of a spot and sight them in, so I don't see how that's an issue either. Are you going to move your dot mid house or food court clearing?


And in truth, if you're talking about actual darkness, either a dot or a scope is going to turn into an occluded gun sight anyway.

It isn't just eye relief but the size of the eye box and parallax. Leaning out in an awkward position from cover, the RDS doesn't care where your eye is (front/back, side to side) so long as the dot is somewhere in the FOV. An advantage shooting fast and close around cover and/or on the move.

quote:

eye box and parallax

Exactly.

A quality 1-X scope is usable at 1x, but that doesn't mean its as good as a quality 1x RDS in all situations.

As always, do whatever you feel it best, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

eye box and parallax

Exactly.

A quality 1-X scope is usable at 1x, but that doesn't mean its as good as a quality 1x RDS in all situations.

As always, do whatever you feel it best, of course.

I agree with this. When I first started buying rifles, I made the mistake of thinking I could "kill two birds with one stone" and bought a 1-4 thinking that at 1x it would be just as good as a red dot. Once I bought my first RDS I saw how wrong I was. The RDS is so much better for a close quarters gun; better field of view, easier to pick up the dot, & much more forgiving as far as cheek placement and eye alignment.

House gun? RDS. As much of a fan that I am of the ACOG, for close in you just can't beat the red dot. It is much more forgiving than a 1-4 or an ACOG type sight, re: head position/cheek weld. And it is fast and accurate close in.

My HD AR has a Comp M3, but my 'go anywhere/do anything' one has a TA31H-G.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Sorry.

All you red dot fan boys are wrong.

1X4, all the way.

Just because people have an opinion different from your own, doesn't make them "fan boys." In this particular case, clearing a home, a red dot IS the better choice.

If you're just trolling, kindly knock it off. If you have some actual reasoning, elaborate. You say "sorry" which you don't mean, demean people and say they're wrong, and nothing else. Your post is not helpful.

I meant it in a teasing not a demeaning fashion.

But I do think true 1X etched reticles are as good up close as red dots and being able to adjust to 3, 4 or 6X quickly when needed is worth the extra weight. (Especially if the user has astigmatism)

The OP did mention house and yard in his query.


There are variables with no illumination and those with illuminated reticles.

And I agree with Indianaboy, a white light should be part of the equation if it is too dark to identify the target. The non-illuminated reticle shows up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RichardC,

I've used both of these SCARs in carbine classes where we used the shoot houses for room clearing. The top one wears a Trijicon Accupower 1-4x, the bottom one has an Aimpoint Pro. For an "all around" performer especially where greater distances are needed the 1-4x is a great option. But for a house gun the red dot is superior.

When shooting strong side (RT side for me) while standing and squared up to a nearby target, the scope on 1x is just as fast as the red dot for me when going from a low ready to shouldered and firing.

But as soon as I go to my weak side it's much different between the two. Several times I would bring the rifle up from a low ready and be met with a black shadow where my scope reticle should be since my cheek weld or head position wasn't perfect. I didn't have that issue with the red dot since it's much less sensitive to head placement.

The shoot house shows you how much you need to be able to shoot either strong or weak side when doing a drop-out around a corner. The drop-out is a great technique for peering around a corner ready to shoot without exposing your entire upper body. I could still do it with the scope, I just wasn't nearly as quick since I had to be much more careful with head position, especially on weak side. My house has both right hand and left hand corners so the red dot is my choice for a house gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
My 1x hopes have LOTS-O-eye relief. What kind of eye relief problems are you having? Do you have a stock that has a foot and a half of adjustment or something?

I generally don't change the position of my scopes or red dots once I settle of a spot and sight them in, so I don't see how that's an issue either. Are you going to move your dot mid house or food court clearing?


And in truth, if you're talking about actual darkness, either a dot or a scope is going to turn into an occluded gun sight anyway.

It isn't just eye relief but the size of the eye box and parallax. Leaning out in an awkward position from cover, the RDS doesn't care where your eye is (front/back, side to side) so long as the dot is somewhere in the FOV. An advantage shooting fast and close around cover and/or on the move.

this is the biggest reason in my opinion, I have a TR-24 on my SBR (main HD rifle) and it worked but not as well as the H1 it wears now.

Plus the weight is much less, my wife might have to use the AR (she prefers it to the G19 which is my HD pistol) so weight makes a difference especially with a AAC 7.62 on th front end....yes I need a dedicated 5.56 suppressor