This looks interesting:
https://www.army.mil/article/2...quad_weapon_contract

Congrats Sig

Is this the MCX Spear that shoots $80 a box 277 Fury???

Yes, the 6.8 x 51 is the 277 Fury

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Is this the MCX Spear that shoots $80 a box 277 Fury???

Its similar to the .277 Fury with a composite case, not hybrid stainless brass. It's 6.8 TVC, not Fury.

https://www.americanrifleman.o...mposite-cased-round/

Civilian rounds will be offered. A x51 case length means it will not fit in a AR15 magwell, it requires the AR10 lower. The round is high pressure - 80k cup, not 55k like 5.56. The SOCOM rounds like .375/.458 run about 38k max. Civilian hunting projectiles will be different from the military as their requirements for penetration vs expansion tend toward a FMJ or steel penetrator. No, it's not some treaty thing we never signed, and JAG came up with a open tip variance in the 1980's. DOD prefers to punch holes in sandbags, adobe, steel compound doors in third world countries, etc.

Given the ability to make billions of rounds, I would expect TVC to be readily affordable and shove Creedmore to the curb in about 5-7 years. The stale AR market will then have to finally accept the AR10 in all its different and incompatible variants as a viable rifle. There is a AR15 on the market which has an larger magwell and those might become a hot item, too. There won't be one kind to rule them all, tho, and that will slow down sales with proprietary variants competing yet not interchangeable.

Im going to suggest that the days of shooting 100-200 rounds of 5.56 won't directly transfer to a x51 cartridge - nobody was bringing their .308s to the range and doing much of that. The difference in recoil .308 to 6.8 TVC isn't much.

I posted a few links about this in the older thread on the topic because I overlooked this one with its incomprehensible one-abbreviation title.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/1680094064/p/3

I ran across those before receiving SIG’s official announcement email this morning. The SIG email has a little more information about the cartridge, including the 6.8×51 designation that I hadn’t seen before. There isn’t much information about the civilian-designated 277 FURY that I’ve found yet, but it will be interesting to monitor future developments. Some early comments point out that the 80,000 PSI of the round may give some shooters pause, as will its high muzzle velocity.

Some pundits question what the barrel life of such guns will be, but one article I saw claims that the XM5 will go 12,000 rounds before needing a barrel replacement as compared with 6,000 currently for the M4. We shall see, I guess, but being a little cynical about contractor claims about military weapons, I will not be surprised to see a future bitch about this contract being that that was an exaggerated claim: “The troubled NGSW project has been plagued with problems, including much shorter barrel life than the SIG Sauer company guaranteed.”

At $80 a box of 20 I have difficulty seeing this round taking off in the civilian world.

-NATO ammo is 5.56. Now the Army wants to move to 6.8 without consulting anyone else or working to standardize the logistics chain first

-This is NOT 6.8 SPC, its a different round. Barely anyone can manufacture this at present. It is going to take an incredibly long time to build up the ammunition needed to support this switch

-The expense of manufacturing this round is MUCH higher than 5.56. With the amount of ammo needed, DOD is about to pay out the ass

-The larger round is going to reduce combat load and force all kinds of equipment changes. New magazines will be needed, and mag pouches. Everything will be larger meaning you cant carry as many. In modern warfare, reducing combat load is a terrible idea, but it will be a necessary measure. There are only so many places you can stick mag pouches on body armor before you cant effectively move or carry the rest of your gear.

-The reduced capacity magazine and its associated impact on suppressive fire has not been tested with a maneuver unit. Reduce Standard Combat Load from 210 rounds down to 120 (as when the M14 was the standard rifle) and watch infantry units achieve objects but end up being red or black on ammo as they continue to expend ammo as previously trained without accounting for their reduced SCL

-Sig has won EVERY Army contract I can think of in recent memory except the SMG contract that went to B&T. At the same time it is no secret that their QC has continued to slip, especially when it comes to new models. There are lots of reports of Army M17s initially failing in 2017-2019. BPT see the same thing with these rifles.

Lots more thoughts on this, but overall, I think this idea is just terrible. Sig is expanding MUCH too rapidly and trying to do too much.

dwd1985 you clearly did not get the memo

quote:

The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.

More accurate and more lethal means they won’t need as many rounds, silly!

So the XM5 has the AR-style charging handle but ALSO a side cocking lever? WHY?

Why Microsoft up* a proven design?

*Giving people too many ways to do the same task

As civilians, some might think a number of items will soon be going to the scrap heap:
- AR15s chambered in 223 Remy, 5.56, 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, 224 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, 300 blackout, and so forth
- AR10s and/or bolt actions chambered in 308 Win, 6.5 CM, 6 CM, 6 Dasher, 6 BR, 6 BRA, 7mm-08, 260 Remy, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6x47 Lapua, 25 Creedmoor, and so forth

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

I'll let the military do what they want, let them shake out the bugs of 1st gen development. I figure I'll burnout a few rifle barrels before anything really concerns me.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
At $80 a box of 20 I have difficulty seeing this round taking off in the civilian world.

It's $33 a box.

Only the hybrid case is $80 a box. Not that it will ever be "cheap", but surely that price will come down as there is increased production.

The XM5 and XM250 will be paired with the XM157 Fire Control, a ruggedized advanced fire control system that increases accuracy and lethality for the close combat force.

The XM157 integrates a number of advanced technologies, including a variable magnification optic (1X8), backup etched reticle, laser rangefinder, ballistic calculator, atmospheric sensor suite, compass, Intra-Soldier Wireless, visible and infrared aiming lasers, and a digital display overlay. It is produced by Sheltered Wings Inc. d/b/a Vortex Optics, Barneveld, Wisconsin.


Video on the XM157

Needs another charging handle.

Thread title sucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
At $80 a box of 20 I have difficulty seeing this round taking off in the civilian world.

It's $33 a box.

Only the hybrid case is $80 a box. Not that it will ever be "cheap", but surely that price will come down as there is increased production.

That’s helpful. Have a link? I have only seen the 80 buckarooskie stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
Yes, the 6.8 x 51 is the 277 Fury

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Is this the MCX Spear that shoots $80 a box 277 Fury???

Barrel life will be atrociously bad and bolts will be breaking right and left.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
At $80 a box of 20 I have difficulty seeing this round taking off in the civilian world.

It could be even money for ammo and I wouldn't adopt this cartridge.


And for what this cartridge costs I have a lot more interest in things like the 6mm ARC, the 6mm Dasher, or the 6.5 Creedmoor in a larger frame gas gun.


The kind of pressure that this thing is being run at is going to create failures in my opinion.

80,000 chamber PSI to get less muzzle drop than the 6.5 Creedmoor, while integrating an optic that has a built in range finder that makes bullet drop much less of a problem.


The extra energy on target is going to be net zero benefit. Anytime guys are getting picked off at 1000 yards, a hit to the arm is going to be effectively an enemy who is combat ineffective.


This whole thing looks like a cluster fuck to me, but if I am wrong I will happily eat my crow.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
At $80 a box of 20 I have difficulty seeing this round taking off in the civilian world.

It's $33 a box.

Only the hybrid case is $80 a box. Not that it will ever be "cheap", but surely that price will come down as there is increased production.

That’s helpful. Have a link? I have only seen the 80 buckarooskie stuff.

Only seen it at SIG:

https://www.sigsauer.com/elite...mj-277-sig-fury.html

Obviously not the velocities from the high pressure hybrid case. I swear they also sold a load when they first released the Cross that used a nickel plated case and a polymer tipped bullet, but I don't see it anymore. Maybe not?

Thanks for the link all I could find was the $80 stuff.