I have 2 Vortex scopes and given the price point, I am fine with them.
And am I alone in thinking that most big name scopes, regardless of quality and features, are way overpriced? When I see scopes going for twice or three times the cost of the gun they are mounted on, it tends to push me towards the Vortex or other lines of more affordable glass.

quote:

And am I alone in thinking that most big name scopes, regardless of quality and features, are way overpriced?

No sir, you are not. Look at what the OP said as evidence. Some of the big boys have started lowering their price points. That's the real effect of Vortex on the market. They are popular because they offer a lot of features for not a lot of money. They are hated in the industry because they peed in the pool that only the big guys got to swim in. In my opinion, Nikon was doing the same thing, but they didn't have the market push or cool-sounding name to make it stick.

Similar to what the S&W MP15 Sport did to the AR market. Offer very similar performance with a good warranty, and it will be good enough for 90% of the demographic.

What Sigfreund said about not knowing enough to know any better, and buyers being the worst judge is very true as well.

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Originally posted by bionic218:

What Sigfreund said about not knowing enough to know any better, and buyers being the worst judge is very true as well.

I completely disagree. People who are competing at the top of the game in a variety of disciplines are utilizing Vortex optics. People who can afford to use whatever scope they want, and who spend tens of thousands of dollars per year in gear, ammo, and match fees. They aren't going to cut a corner on an optic to save a thousand bucks.

From a survey of the top 100 finishers within the Precision Rifle Series




When the Vortex Razor 1-6 was introduced I started seeing them supplant the more expensive Swarovski 1-6, which had been THE gold standard scope for optical clarity in the 3-gun world.

The Razor offered glass on par, a better reticle, better illumination, and it doesn't break. I found out in a conversation with one top shooter that he had a duplicate scope when he was using the Swaro, so he wouldn't be without his when he sent it to Swaro for warranty work when he broke something on it roughly once a year.

The Razor 1-6 is quite heavy though, I will give you that. They are coming out with the E model, which shaves a few ounces.


I have a Steiner T5Xi 1-5x which is aimed at the same market segment as the Razor 1-6.

Glass quality is excellent, and the reticle is quite good. Illumination is nowhere near as good as the Razor, and sadly the turrets are far inferior. My Razor 1-6 tracks like you would want a long range scope to track. Which for me hasn't been particularly relevant because the damn thing has never shifted zero since I mounted it, ever.


I just picked up a Viper PST 3-15 FFP and have been working it through the paces. Too early for me to make a lot of claims about it, but the EBR-2C reticle is simple and intuitive.

A buddy of mine has a Leupold that he paid a lot more for, that has a MIL reticle and MOA turrets.


That's like building cabinets for your house and measuring everything in centimeters and making your cuts in inches. Pants on head stupid.


The Burris RT6 looks promising, but when Vortex introduced the Razor 1-6, there wasn't anything even remotely comparable in the price range. And surely nobody paid $1400 for the optic alone. I got mine for something like $1200, shipped and insured, including an ADM mount and throw lever. And that was when they had just hit the market.

Maybe I'm just lucky with how my eyes work, but with a properly adjusted diopter, both my Razor 1-6x and my Steiner 1-5x offer true 1x with no distortion.


I don't have any experience with the made in china offerings from Vortex. With the sole exception of the SparcAR. I have one of those on an AR pistol and I have beat the hell out of that thing and it has worked perfectly.

I can't say the same for my ACOG that was nearly impossible to zero because of tracking issues, and which never wanted to hold zero.



I should clarify that I am not asserting that Vortex is THE best scope maker.

There is no doubt that March, Tangent Theta, etc are turning out some phenomenal products.

And I don't have any personal experience with some of the less expensive offerings from Vortex. I have seen enough incidents of Strike Eagles failing due to abuse in 3-gun that I don't recommend them to new shooters, even though if it breaks Vortex will fix it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IndianaBoy,

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
And am I alone in thinking that most big name scopes, regardless of quality and features, are way overpriced? When I see scopes going for twice or three times the cost of the gun they are mounted on, it tends to push me towards the Vortex or other lines of more affordable glass.

Scopes that retail for $3,000+ aren't intended to be mounted on $1,000 rifles -- these scopes are marketed to shooters with $4,000 to $6,000 rifles. Such scopes offer features which help the shooters be a little more competitive in the games they play. For example, based on tactical/steel match use:

ED glass -- for the ability to see unpainted steel targets that are hidden in the shade of a juniper tree, with nearby dirt that's almost the same color as the target.

ED glass -- so the shooter can determine that his miss on a 500 yard target is 3" at 4 o'clock, rather than somewhere right of the target.

substantial elevation adjustment -- so the shooter can dial elevation for targets from 100 to 1700 yards.

substantial parallax adjustment -- so the shooter can use the same scope for both his competition rifle (100 to 1700 yards) and his PCP and .22lr trainer rifles (25 to 200 yards). And BTW, those trainer rifles may cost $4,000 or more. Each.

The tactical/steel match shooter may dial scope elevation more in a single 3 minute stage than a hunter or paper target plinker will do in 50 years of shooting. Furthermore, that tactical/steel match rifle's scope will be expected to do that for many hundreds (maybe thousands) of stages, without fail.

It's all about target audience and wallet size. We may dream of a 4WD Ferrari, when an AWD Subaru gets the job done.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
And am I alone in thinking that most big name scopes, regardless of quality and features, are way overpriced? When I see scopes going for twice or three times the cost of the gun they are mounted on, it tends to push me towards the Vortex or other lines of more affordable glass.

Scopes that retail for $3,000+ aren't intended to be mounted on $1,000 rifles -- these scopes are marketed to shooters with $4,000 to $6,000 rifles. Such scopes offer features which help the shooters be a little more competitive in the games they play. For example, based on tactical/steel match use:

ED glass -- for the ability to see unpainted steel targets that are hidden in the shade of a juniper tree, with nearby dirt that's almost the same color as the target.

ED glass -- so the shooter can determine that his miss on a 500 yard target is 3" at 4 o'clock, rather than somewhere right of the target.

substantial elevation adjustment -- so the shooter can dial elevation for targets from 100 to 1700 yards.

substantial parallax adjustment -- so the shooter can use the same scope for both his competition rifle (100 to 1700 yards) and his PCP and .22lr trainer rifles (25 to 200 yards). And BTW, those trainer rifles may cost $4,000 or more. Each.

The tactical/steel match shooter may dial scope elevation more in a single 3 minute stage than a hunter or paper target plinker will do in 50 years of shooting. Furthermore, that tactical/steel match rifle's scope will be expected to do that for many hundreds (maybe thousands) of stages, without fail.

It's all about target audience and wallet size. We may dream of a 4WD Ferrari, when an AWD Subaru gets the job done.

Well said Fritz. My second NF ATACR F1 7-35 arrived on Saturday. Parallax adjust down to 10 yards on a 35 power scope. I had two Vortex Razors. I now own two NF ATACR F1's. Vortex did a great job marketing themselves to the PRS shooters and if anyone thinks those guys are paying anywhere near retail you're wrong. There's a reason everyone knows Vortex has great customer service. I've seen more than one arrive DOA out of the box. I like some of Vortex's features like their turrets and second rev indicator. Edge clarity can be lacking on higher magnification and they're not as bright as my NF in low light conditions. I'm amazed at NF's ED glass. You get what you pay for when it comes to optics.