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Colt SP1 finds: and a question on flash hiders Login/Join 
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Update: The 3x Colt branded scope is apparently from Japan according to its inspection sticker.

Update: I concur the 20" gun is not a SP1. I was thinking because the SN began SP it was but I searched on the net with other serial numbered guns and it comes up as stated on the receiver. I forgot the model numbers and found this good article.

https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Col...Identification_Guide

And, last but not least, a serial number list:

https://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/ar15serial.html

Update: I picked up #1 and yes the flash hider is welded on the bbl all the way around it. I see no markings off hand in the bbl but 5.56 and the stock is marked Cherokee Accessories. The scope marked Colt is nice an clear and sharp.

Now I am cleaning it as I did the other one today. Very nice looking no rust or dings only a rub on the CAR. I wish it's twist rate was visibly marked on its bbl.

Update: On #2: The bbl is marked C MP so it appears a Colt HB barrel just as the receiver is marked HB and 1/7. On #1, my local class 2 explained: "To be legal the flash hider would have to be permanently pinned or welded onto the barrel." Seller says it is and is permanent.

So on #1: should there be markings below the handguards to who made it and twist rate? The bolt is marked with C but obviously the upper is aftermarket.


Update. I will post better pictures once I have 1 in hand. Yes, thanks all, especially Para's advice. I will not pick it up without confirming what Para wrote. On twist rate the full stock one is 1/7 so I will shoot 62 gr. I do not yet know that on the carbine but will shortly, and hope it is the same to shoot 62 gr too.

1: Is this flash hider on the Colt SP1 Carbine original? I am picking this up today. I do not remember this type of flash hider so wanted to ask was it factory:

https://share.icloud.com/photo...lLRq7x_JbguOQawfVTPw

2: Here is a nice Full stock Edited [NOT SP1] 20" bbl. I picked this up yesterday as you do not see many anymore.

https://share.icloud.com/photo...OMtL6yrdGcD7aBjMyzHw

I will shoot them but like the older guns.

Both from the same LEO/retired military serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. All I can say is thank you.
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The carbine's muzzle device is not original. SP1 Carbines came from the factory with a standard birdcage flash hider on a 16" barrel.



Appears that a prior owner swapped the upper for one with a shorter barrel with an XM177-style moderator look-alike. Likely 11.5" with a pinned and welded 4.5" muzzle device.

The serial on the carbine lower puts year of manufacture at late 1981, towards the end of SP1 production.

The serial on the rifle's lower puts it at mid-1972. But it likewise has had the upper swapped for a M16A2-style upper. Note the A2 rear sight with elevation/range adjustment dial below, heavier 20" government profile barrel, and round handguards. The SP1 rifle would have originally came with an A1 upper with its simpler rear sight with elevation/range adjustment on the side, 20" pencil barrel, and triangular handguards.




So effectively, you have two original Colt SP1 lower receivers, with non-SP1 aftermarket uppers and likely some other aftermarket parts.
 
Posts: 32714 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That first rifle has a Colt lower and a Colt scope and that's all- maybe the butt stock underneath the riser (I can't see it, really), but the receiver extension is a replacement. The anodizing on that upper is way off, doesn't look like Colt at all.

You'd better make sure that XM177 flash hider is permanently attached to the barrel (unless it's a fake slip-on and the barrel is actually 16 inches.) Word to the wise.
 
Posts: 108359 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The SP1 lowers alone could be worth about $1k to the right buyer, like someone in a ban state such as CT or MA since they're documented preban lowers, or someone who wants one specifically for a retro Colt build.

Hard to say the value of the aftermarket uppers, without knowing the type/quality. But almost certainly much less than the potential value of the lowers themselves.

So if all you're wanting is just a M16A2-style rifle and a XM177-style carbine, and don't care if the lowers say Colt or not, you might consider swapping in a couple inexpensive new production lowers and selling the more valuable SP1 lowers. Could end up potentially making most of your money back.

Interestingly, if the 1972 SP1 rifle still had its original factory upper, it would be a considered a "Curio & Relic" firearm, since it's now just over 50 years old, and could have been eligible to be sold across state lines to an 03 C&R FFL holder. But that only applies to 50+ year old guns in original configuration, so the aftermarket upper removes that possibility.

When people think of C&R rifles, they usually envision old WW1/WW2-era bolt action rifles... Not Colt AR15s. Big Grin
 
Posts: 32714 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The carbine upper is most likely Bushmaster or Olympic Arms. They both made that style upper with the bad imitation of an XM177 flash suppressor.
 
Posts: 2685 | Location: OH, USA | Registered: January 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 20” gun isn’t a SP1. As it says on the receiver, it’s a AR15A2 HBAR Sporter. It looks right for that model, but it’s not the same thing as a SP1. Quite a bit less desirable, although I think it may be desirable in MD, since for I think some reason it’s not considered an “assault rifle”.

The carbine is definitely messed up, as others have noted. It’s got a small pushpin upper on the large pivot pinhole Colt SP1 lower.
 
Posts: 3376 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good catch. Glanced at the serial, not the model markings.

In that case, definitely not a 1972 rifle, though still pre-ban.

And the good news is that the upper is likely original.
 
Posts: 32714 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SP1 has an aftermarket upper. Looks to be Olympic Arms, though I can’t quite tell based on the pics of it has a cast FSB. Iirc Oly all had cast fsb.

Does the Sporter Match HBAR have a steel autosear block blind pinned in the lower? More photos of the lower in focus would be helpful.


---------------------------------------------
"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2353 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The HBAR has no block and appears upper and lower original and on the SP1 it is for sure a proper lower and as you say an aftermarket upper.

Watching for a proper big hole upper good luck I tell myself) but if not I will put a much better upper on it to do it justice. Daniel Defense makes a big hole upper if I want to have one built using it.

I have one complete gun as a result and a SP1 complete lower but not bad for 2 days.
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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you first post has been edited a bit and is a bit confusing,


the pics of the Colt lower and A1 upper, is that the rifle in question?

can you show us detailed photos of the upper, esp the right hand side, on each side of the dust cover and the thin web under the rear sight?

I agree that the upper is not Colt commercial, but not sure if the upper is Oly or a GI replacement etc yet



https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/

 
Posts: 10472 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Will take some of sp1 tomorrow but no longer have any doubt it is an after market upper but see this article where some early guns used in Vietnam have the same flash hider that is on this one - but they were before the sp1 of course -

A great article w photos:

https://www.americanrifleman.o...th-the-car-15-rifle/
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here are photos of 1) the unknown upper on the Colt SP1 lower:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fTLTHjRoiVtLrT4i7
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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LM is a USGI replacement part, as in the upper is a Gov't part,

the barrel with flash hider does not look like the typical SGW\Sendra\Oly etc barrel, however there were others producing such things and that Flash hider could have been added by someone else,



https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/

 
Posts: 10472 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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does the barrel have anything stamped on the top in front of the FSB?

the BCG is of the Colt style, is the carrier marked on the side, and any markings on the bolt?



https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/

 
Posts: 10472 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tschiemer:
Here are photos of 1) the unknown upper on the Colt SP1 lower:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fTLTHjRoiVtLrT4i7


LM forge markings on the upper are for LAR Martin Marietta. It’s a milspec government contract upper. The front sight base is forged. The faux moderator doesn’t look like a Bushmaster. The upper would be great to build out a separate 603 or 653 clone. Snag a H&R retro black lower.

Is the barrel chrome lined?

The stock is totally aftermarket. I’d personally replace it with this: https://www.jsesurplus.com/ace...bufferandspring.aspx.


---------------------------------------------
"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2353 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bolt marked with a C Colt just like the other gun. Will look and post more probably tomorrow. It sounds so much better than I hoped. I defer to you guys. I will try to get better focused pics of what I can see.
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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About fifteen years ago, a good friend of mine was buying NIW LM uppers like that, M16 gov contract replacement uppers with a wick in the barrel for $200. His source had a whole bunch of them. As clean as that upper is, I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s one of those that someone decided was a great candidate for turning into an XM177 type.


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Posts: 17401 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
About fifteen years ago, a good friend of mine was buying NIW LM uppers like that, M16 gov contract replacement uppers with a wick in the barrel for $200. His source had a whole bunch of them. As clean as that upper is, I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s one of those that someone decided was a great candidate for turning into an XM177 type.


yup,

Gov't contract replacement, but still an original A1, and worth a bit of change to the retro guys,

I sold several before the Cootie times for just north of $200. and they have gone up a bit since then,



https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/

 
Posts: 10472 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looking at reviews on this company and this reproduction upper they seem to do good work:

https://ar15sport.com/product/...77e2-upper-in-black/
 
Posts: 2562 | Location: Ark, USA | Registered: January 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tschiemer:
Looking at reviews on this company and this reproduction upper they seem to do good work:

https://ar15sport.com/product/...77e2-upper-in-black/



I would personally go with a H&R reproduction in gray anodizing. If you really want an XM177, send the upper to John Thomas to add a faux moderator that looks legit.

https://palmettostatearmory.co...gray-1-12-twist.html


---------------------------------------------
"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2353 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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