If he goes M70 and is after heirloom quality, make sure he gets a New Haven made gun.

I assumed by your description of him jsut being a hunter and not a shooter, the heirloom quality would be of little concern. Most guys I know like that jsut want something reliable that shoots. Id grab a Tikka and a Leupold VX5 3-15.

I’ve never hunted elk, but I’ve hunted deer here at home and plains game in Namibia. I used a Winchester model 70 in 30-06 (a pre 64 model) that I found on the used rack at my local Cabelas. Federal ammo with a 165 gr. Barnes triple shock stopped everything as long a I did my part.

Just a point about ammo, the bag containing my ammo didn’t arrive for two days on that Namibia trip. I arrived on a Sunday and the gun shops were closed. Our hunting camp was 3 hours away and we weren’t going to waste hunting time waiting to buy ammo. I hunted with a borrowed model 70 in .270 until my bag with the ammo showed up two days later. My point is, if you are hunting in remote locations, or foreign countries, classic calibers are more common and ammo will be easier to find if unfortunate circumstances arise.

Sean

Hi, I'm the friend with the new gun problem. As Tony stated I am looking for a new gun with good long range accuracy with a heavier bullet. I have been going back and forth between the 7 mm and 300 WM. I have ruled out the 300 WSM just because the ammunition is harder to come by and I don't have the time to hand load.

The 270 that I have is a good rifle but I believe that it performs better with a lighter grain bullet, I use a cheap off the shelf 130 gr and have had decent success. I am not opposed to a better class of bullet but I haven't had the time align my scope to something better. I think the 270 130 gr is a little light for elk (even though it worked for me this year) which is why I want something bigger. Yes, I know shot placement is 99% of bringing down an animal but I rarely have the time to take a perfect shot.

One thing that I am trying to keep in mind is the possibility of going after something larger than an elk. I generally have a bear tag with me when I am out hunting but I am not too eager to try that with a only a 270.

I do have a REM 742 30.06 but it needs a new scope or just permanently mounted to my wall, I am not sure yet. I have hunted with it and been successful but wouldn't expect it to perform as well as a magnum out at the longer distances.

Now some of the other things that I am looking at to make my decision. Shining stainless steel barrels just do not look good to me. The 270 that I carry has a 26" barrel and weighs over 10lbs with the scope. Pretty much everything I am looking at is lighter and will be an improvement.

I thank you all for your recommendations and will keep them in mind while I continue my search.

Wayne

Welcome aboard!

With the internet I don't think you will have any problem finding 300WSM ammo. There might be a bit more available for the 300WM but not as much as you might think. IMHO the advantage of the 300WM is that you can safely, within pressure limits load it to a bit faster than the 300WSM. Factory loads for the 2 are about the same.

Having owned quite a few 300WM and 300WSM's I really don't think you'll have to big a problem with the recoil if you have been shooting a 742 in 30-06. I find a lightweight 300WSM with a good recoil pad and well designed stock (like a Kimber 8400M) to be MORE comfortable to shoot than a 742 with it's narrow butt and hard buttplate.

I've seen a little bit more spotty accuracy with 7mm Mags but some of them can shoot great too.

Anyway a 300WM or 300WSM in a good fitting stock should be no problem for you to shoot and enjoy shooting and hunting with. A really lightweight rifle like a Kimber Montana can take a little more concentration to shoot well but it can be done. But once you carry one around all day compared to a normal weight rifle you might be more than willing to learn to shoot the lightweight rifle well..........dj

Welcome to the forum, Wayne!

To the ones who have already given responses; what about the accuracy and ease of maintenance? I know Savage has their accu-stock. How do the other rifles shoot out of the box and do they have V-block style inserts in their stocks or are they pre-bedded with pillars?

He also mentioned he'd like the DBM (detachable box magazine) option if there is one.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by Jahoonay:
Hi, I'm the friend with the new gun problem. As Tony stated I am looking for a new gun with good long range accuracy with a heavier bullet. I have been going back and forth between the 7 mm and 300 WM. I have ruled out the 300 WSM just because the ammunition is harder to come by and I don't have the time to hand load.

The 270 that I have is a good rifle but I believe that it performs better with a lighter grain bullet, I use a cheap off the shelf 130 gr and have had decent success. I am not opposed to a better class of bullet but I haven't had the time align my scope to something better. I think the 270 130 gr is a little light for elk (even though it worked for me this year) which is why I want something bigger. Yes, I know shot placement is 99% of bringing down an animal but I rarely have the time to take a perfect shot.

One thing that I am trying to keep in mind is the possibility of going after something larger than an elk. I generally have a bear tag with me when I am out hunting but I am not too eager to try that with a only a 270.

I do have a REM 742 30.06 but it needs a new scope or just permanently mounted to my wall, I am not sure yet. I have hunted with it and been successful but wouldn't expect it to perform as well as a magnum out at the longer distances.

Now some of the other things that I am looking at to make my decision. Shining stainless steel barrels just do not look good to me. The 270 that I carry has a 26" barrel and weighs over 10lbs with the scope. Pretty much everything I am looking at is lighter and will be an improvement.

I thank you all for your recommendations and will keep them in mind while I continue my search.

Wayne

Welcome Wayne, good to have you.

You can easily go with a 7mm RM or a 300 WM, and keep your shooting comfortable. There are ways to reduce recoil in the magnum calibers such as a muzzle brake and recoil pad. I mentioned my A-Bolt II in my previous post, it’s one of the models that came with a threaded barrel (BOSS system) along with the CR barrel extension and tunable muzzle brake. That rifle in 300 Win Mag with the brake installed kicks less than my plain model 700 in 30-06 and I’d actually put the felt recoil in the same class as factory 270’s and 308’s that i’ve shot. The A-Bolt II with this set up I believe is long discontued but if you can find one used with the muzzle brake, I can all but promise you’ll be thrilled unless the rifle was previously beat to hell and has existing issues. To this day, I swear it’s the smoothest factory bolt I’ve ever personally experienced and it’s still tight as a drum after having used it since 2000.

That said, there are several other great options available. With a magnum caliber you’d do well to somehow mitigate the recoil, not necessarily because of “the shot” you’ll take while hunting but rather for the time you’ll spend at the range. That’s where you need to get comfortable with what you’re shooting instead of drawing for a shot in the field and then thinking “this thing’s about to kick the crap out of me”. So, is a magnum caliber necessary for what you’re doing? Nah of course not but it doesn’t hurt. Just take certain factors into consideration and you’ll be fine.

Best of luck and happy hunting!

This has Tikka T3X Forrester written all over it. If you want something little more fancy, get a Sako. Both have MOA accuracy guarantees. The Tikka 3 shot, the Sako 5. You can drop twice as much on a rifle as the Tikka but it won't shoot any better.

Given your post, I'd say go with the .300 WM.

The 7mm is just going to be a half measure improvement over what you already have.

I say this as one that has tried to love the 7mm in the past and just couldn't.

"rarely have the time for a perfect shot"

A LARGER , heavier bullet is not going to help.

Welcome Wayne!!!

You might check out the CZ ultimate hunting rifle (UHR), I've seen them go for 1300-1400 dollars, they aren't light. It they are beutiful rifles with guaranteed MOA accuracy out to 600yds, scope rings included.

If you want lightweight but still blued with wood, check out the kimber classics. I have one in 308 (I know it's. It the caliber you're looking for) that came in well under 6lbs before I put the scope on, still well under 7lbs with the scope.

I spent a long loooong time shooting a 270 with a fixed 6 power scope for everything from elk to pronghorns, to deer and even a few sheep, it did everything with no issues but at the time I was convinced I needed a magnum, I ended up getting a 300wm, 300wby, 338wm, 340wby and even a 378wby. Then after beating myself up for a few years I went back to standard cartridges, mainly the 308, 30-06 and 6.5cm for everything and I've also gravitated toward lightweight rifles since I'm focused on fly in hunts where weight is an issue. That's why I recommended the kimber Montana which is a great rifle.

Pretty much everything mentioned is a solid choice but if my main rifle was going to be a wooded, blued 300, I'd still keep some sort of lighter rifle in a smaller cartridge around for when it was more suitable for the situation at hand. Nowadays, the only magnums I have on hand are a weatherby vanguard dangerous game rifle in 375HH with a leupold vx3i 1.5-5x20 and a kimber talkeetna also in 375HH with the exact same scope as the weatherby.

That being said, there's a moose season next month and I'm in an area where 70" bulls are not uncommon just upriver from me. I'll be taking a kimber Montana 308 with a leupold vx3i 2.5-8x36 and I have absolutely no reservations about that set up.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
"rarely have the time for a perfect shot"

A LARGER , heavier bullet is not going to help.

I know a larger, heavier bullet will not help with a perfect shot. What I am looking for is the capability to take a longer range shot at larger game. A 270 130gr has its limitations

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Nothing wrong with he Xbolt but I think there better rifles out there. My go to for anything bigger than Deer is my Sako 85 Finnlight in 300WSM.

Caliber is largely a moot point a tht distance youve stated. A good bullet and proper shot palcement are all thats needed. At 400 yards Id probably look closer at 308/7-08/30-06......all more than capable for Elk at 400 and dont carry the price or recoil of the 300WSM. I relaod for mine so its not terrible but its still not 308 cheap. Aside from maybe an accuracy bump, whats wrong with the 270?

The 270 doesn't have the shot placement at 200 yards that I would expect, about 5" groupings. I know that the receiver is floating loosely in the stock and is part of my problem. Yes, I plan to have it repaired. I also plan to experiment with better ammunition and may even change my scope, it's a Redfield Revolution 3x9. I've had the scope about a year and taken a couple animals with but I'm not convinced not part of the problem.

At the end off the day I want 1 rifle for deer (270) and 1 for larger game. That's where the 300WM comes in.

I had a Kimber Montana in a .270wsm, while it seemed to be the perfect mountain rifle it wouldn't group worth a damn using premium ammo or handloads. I loved my Browning SS stalker in a .300wsm as well as a semi custom MRC with a Wolf stock also in a .300wsm. My present rifle is a Sako Finnlight in a .300wsm and it shoots under 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the right ammo.. Have had a Winchester .270 and it did well also.

quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie1:
I had a Kimber Montana in a .270wsm, while it seemed to be the perfect mountain rifle it wouldn't group worth a damn using premium ammo or handloads. I loved my Browning SS stalker in a .300wsm as well as a semi custom MRC with a Wolf stock also in a .300wsm. My present rifle is a Sako Finnlight in a .300wsm and it shoots under 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the right ammo.. Have had a Winchester .270 and it did well also.

I think those problems have largely been fixed on the kimber rifles. There was definetly a time period where they were having issues so I believe you but over he past few years they have gotten better and better.

In fact I'm always keeping an eye out for those kimber that won't shoot because they can be fixed fairly easily with minimal tools and skill. I have a friend who has gotten 3 or 4 older ones that wouldn't shoot and put a bit of work into them and the problems all dissapeared. As for the kimber I have, all are newer and have absolutely no issues and group nicely. Right now, if I were getting rid of rifles my kimbers would be the last to go and I'd not have any hesitation about buying a new one.

In fact, an adirondack in 6.5 cm is in the cards.

quote:

Originally posted by Jahoonay:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
"rarely have the time for a perfect shot"

A LARGER , heavier bullet is not going to help.

I know a larger, heavier bullet will not help with a perfect shot. What I am looking for is the capability to take a longer range shot at larger game. A 270 130gr has its limitations

That's always been a drawback to the 270 cartridge.

There aren't many cartridges that use .277" bullets besides the .270 Winchester.

The .270 Winchester was designed to shoot light bullets fast, so all the rifles have short throats and slow twists designed for those lightweight bullets.

But that means the rifles are not at all well-suited to shooting heavier bullets.

The end result almost a century later is that there pretty much aren't any .270 barrels suited to shooting heavy bullets and there pretty much aren't any heavy .277" bullets anyway.

(Last time I looked, I literally could not find a single .277" bullet heavier than 150 grain. It looks like Berger now makes a 170 grain .277" bullet, but it needs a faster barrel twist than any factory .270 Winchester rifle will have.)

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Jahoonay:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
"rarely have the time for a perfect shot"

A LARGER , heavier bullet is not going to help.

I know a larger, heavier bullet will not help with a perfect shot. What I am looking for is the capability to take a longer range shot at larger game. A 270 130gr has its limitations

That's always been a drawback to the 270 cartridge.

There aren't many cartridges that use .277" bullets besides the .270 Winchester.

The .270 Winchester was designed to shoot light bullets fast, so all the rifles have short throats and slow twists designed for those lightweight bullets.

But that means the rifles are not at all well-suited to shooting heavier bullets.

The end result almost a century later is that there pretty much aren't any .270 barrels suited to shooting heavy bullets and there pretty much aren't any heavy .277" bullets anyway.

(Last time I looked, I literally could not find a single .277" bullet heavier than 150 grain. It looks like Berger now makes a 170 grain .277" bullet, but it needs a faster barrel twist than any factory .270 Winchester rifle will have.)

My 270 isn't an off the shelf, factory rifle. It's a custom build that I picked up at a gun show about 20 years ago. It's possible the barrel twist is different, maybe I will look into it.

Belts, yuck. There’s so many new cartridges out there to choose from that don’t have that drawback. I do, however, enjoy my 338 Win Mag. Forget the 7mm Mag. It just doesn’t get you far enough ahead of the 270 and 30-06 that you now already own.

Too bad you don’t handload. There’s some great deals out there on some M77 rifles chambered in 338RCM for under $500.