SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    .22LR Twist Rate 1:9 or 1:16
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
.22LR Twist Rate 1:9 or 1:16 Login/Join 
Member
Picture of jcsabolt2
posted
I have a 30-35yr old stock Ruger 10/22 with just Ruger's trigger pack upgrade. I'm looking to replace the barrel with a 16" bull and put a new stock, maybe a Magpul or Hogue on it.

Normally I shoot 40gr or 36gr CCI Mini Mags, but have some 60gr rounds and would like to be able to sling some of the heavier/quieter stuff for accurate shots. If I switch to a 1:9 twist, will that mess up the accuracy of the lighter weight bullets? This is my do all .22LR, but I have access to a few others too of higher quality. I'd just prefer to make this one the one who whispers in your ear. Wink

FYSA...for anyone interested.
Greenhill Formula, Twist Rate
Miller Twist Rule

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jcsabolt2,


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
 
Posts: 3635 | Registered: July 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Every 22lr barrel is different. There's a good chance that a 1:9 barrel may not play well with lighter bullets. Or it might do OK. Or it might be inconsistent.

The best chance for quiet and accurate results is a quality 1:16 twist barrel with match-grade subsonic ammo.
 
Posts: 7895 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sourdough44
posted Hide Post
https://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

I looked a bit, do see some mention of a faster twist for the 22 LR. The common twist being 1/16”. I don’t see anything conclusive at all, much less than the various options with 22 cal centerfire rounds.

I don’t see anything enough to reinvent the wheel, or thinking that virtually all manufacturers got it wrong, unless maybe you have very specialized ammo in mind.

I had detailed conversations with a gunsmith years ago, he was creating two custom 22-250’s. One for a relative, the other for me. It was a thing, to get a faster twist than the customary 1/14” in the 22-250.

We talked about plans & bullet weights, told him I would likely always be under 55 grains, mostly 50 grains, prairie dogging. He told me there was no reason to deviate from the standard 1/14”, no regrets. Just a 22-250 story.
 
Posts: 6197 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
According to ballistician Bryan Litz, all else being equal, slower twist rates are better for precision because the faster the bullet spins the greater the effects of any imperfections.

I wasn’t even aware, however, that 22 Long Rifle barrels were available in different twist rates. It seems to me that 22 LR loads are available in a fairly narrow range of bullet weights* and therefore I wouldn’t expect there to be any advantage to faster than traditional twist rates. Is there some claimed advantage to 1/9"?

* It’s actually the length of the bullet that governs how fast a twist rate must be to stabilize it (assuming the same atmospheric conditions). Bullets for centerfire calibers can vary significantly in length not only because of their weight but also construction and design. All copper bullets, for example, will be longer than lead/gilding metal bullets of the same weight because the copper is less dense than the lead. Some designs are also longer than other bullets of the same weight. For example a spitzer (pointed) boattail bullet intended for long range precision shooting will be longer than a comparable weight blunt nosed flat based bullet designed for hunting. I am not aware of such design differences among 22LR projectiles.

Added: Okay, I should have researched first and posted second.
Based on a few posts and sites, the 1/9" 22LR barrel will stabilize the Aguila 60 grain load. Some posts mention that that ammunition will not stabilize from all 1/16" barrels, and that’s what I found myself the one time I tried the ammunition.

I do not understand, though, the appeal of choosing a barrel just based on its ability to stabilize one particular—and unusual—load that doesn’t offer any particular ballistic advantage that I can see.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47422 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of jcsabolt2
posted Hide Post
Sigfreund,

From what I have read, anything that is 45gr and over requires a faster twist barrel to properly stabilize. Most suppressor specific ammo (meant to say suppressed ammo) appear to be at "least" 40gr, have seen 42gr, 45gr, up to 60gr. Also, Cutting Edge bullets also makes lathe turned copper bullets in 32gr, 42gr, and 50gr with the later two requiring twist rates of 1:10 and 1:7 respectively. Twist rate is not the end all, be all, but there is a "sweet spot" to be found or the old 6mm Remington would be smoking the .243 Winchester by now since it came out first and has more case capacity. Remington chose a slower twist rate that didn't stabilize heavier bullets that the .243 Win did with a slightly faster twist rate. The end is now history.

Don't get me wrong, a standard .22LR barrel is a 1:16 twist. I'm just looking to see if there some off the shelf options worth looking into for a barrel swap.

The Rimfire Report: Reloading with Cutting Edge Bullets .22LR Kit

Cutting Edge Bullets, .22LR

Besides, I'm an engineer and like tinkering with odd ball stuff.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jcsabolt2,


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
 
Posts: 3635 | Registered: July 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jcsabolt2:
Most suppressor specific ammo appear to be at "least" 40gr, have seen 42gr, 45gr, up to 60gr.

There is no such thing as "suppressor specific ammo". Rifle ammo shoots both with and without suppressors. Subsonic ammo suppresses better than supersonic ammo, but that does not make subsonic ammo "suppressor specific ammo".

Match-grade and near-match-grade 40 grain lead 22lr subsonic ammo performs with great accuracy across effective 22lr distances. There's no need to futz around with ammo that works. Here is 5 rounds of Lupua Center X at 243 yards on a 12" plate, from my Kimber. My notes state 1.7" vertical and 1.1" horizontal dispersion. Variable winds of 5-12 mph from my my 5 to 9 o'clock.



Match ammo works.
If you want to shoot more accurately, dump the CCI mini mags that you're using. From an accuracy standpoint, it is....sub-optimal.
 
Posts: 7895 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
I have read extensively about exterior ballistics in general, and specifically about factors affecting bullet stability. I believe I have an above average understanding of the latter as a consequence.

That knowledge and understanding is the reason for my comments and they were offered in response to your initial post which I interpreted as a question. Had you simply said that you were planning to get a 1/9" barrel, I would have remained out of the thread—as I remain out of countless other threads here.

Best of success with whatever you decide to do.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47422 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
No disrespect intended but why would you even consider this? A 60 grain 22? Are you really planning on only shooting that because if not just stick to the standard. Having a gun that shot 60’s great (never seen one of these 60’s in real life) but slings normal weights all over would suck. Can’t see how it could possibly work well with lighter normal bullets. 1:9 to 1:16 seems like a huge switch. Kind of (almost exactly) like shooting 22’s down an AR rifled barrel. Are these just repurposed AR barrels since they are basically identical nominally if not actually?
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 47422 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
For anyone that didn’t want to watch 15 minutes of target shooting that video doesn’t really address this question. It compares a 1:16 twist versus a 1:12 twist. Save you a bit of time.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
Sorry for not being clear. Just trying to do my part by following the example of all the Twitter posts that try to minimize the verbiage these days.





Near the end of the video, however, he mentions that he did not have good results with 1:9.
And the purpose of his shooting at targets was to demonstrate the difference in performance between the twist rates by an actual test.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47422 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of jcsabolt2
posted Hide Post
Sigfreund,

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look when I get a chance. Had several family issues going on lately.


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
 
Posts: 3635 | Registered: July 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I don’t see how 1:9 twist could possibly be a good idea. Nobody ever gets great accuracy out of a conversion bolt on 1:7 or 1:9 barrels. Granted it’s nots an apples to apples thing but this whole original question seems dumb. Of course it won’t work as well. You can spend your t8me and money to try it out but it won’t work. As for 1:16 being perfect, don’t know. The results between the two rifles in the video were pretty darn close to the same from what I watched. As in both were crazy accurate. (I only watched the first rounds then sped through it because that video is booooring lol). The father and son interaction was nice though, reminded me of taking my son to our pistol club and shooting “match style” with him. Good times.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of shoevb
posted Hide Post
Have you tried shooting the 60 grain through your 10/22 as it is now? I bought a bunch of the 60 grain Aguila when it was the only .22 ammo I could find. Because of the bigger bullet it has a shorter case which my 10/22's have never been happy feeding from the rotary magazine.

Works great with my Henry lever action and is very quiet but I've never been able to have it consistently feed and eject in my 10/22's.
 
Posts: 1219 | Location: Hampton Roads | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I'm not sure if the 60g ammo being discussed is the aquila? But if it is run away. At our weekly plate matches a number of people have tried using it to see if they can get better plate knockover performance than regular .22lr ammo.
To be blunt the stuff sucks. Misfeeds, misfires, jamming, poor ejection. You name it.
You want quiet just get a decent .22lr suppressor and subsonic ammo.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11021 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    .22LR Twist Rate 1:9 or 1:16

© SIGforum 2024