Gents,

Wanted to share the results of today's range day. The rifle was a G.A. Precision .223 built on a Templar short action with a Bartlein barrel threaded for a suppressor. Optics are the Nightforce ATACR 5 X 25. All in all a wonderful rifle. It shoots well. I am the week point.



Close up Picture of the action/scope:



Finally, a pic of a 100 yd. group with Federal Gold Medal Match 77 grain SMK's:



All in all a great rifle. I can't wait to see what it can do with reloads and some more time behind the trigger...

Wes

Envy is supposed to be a deadly sin, but I’ll risk it over that.

Love the rifle, looks amazing.
However, seems spelling is more of your weak point than shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Love the rifle, looks amazing.
However, seems spelling is more of your weak point than shooting.

What a week argument!

Nice rifle and nice shooting, Wes!

Gents,

Spelling, at 0300 in the morning has never been my strong point! I'll try to do better...

Wes

Very nice. My preference would not be in .223

Now, .243 yes.

oldruggedcross,

Ah, the .243 Winchester. Great cartridge, but a bit hard on barrels. We could go with the 6mm Creedmoor if we wanted to update the cartridge/rifle combo...!
Over the years I've had several .243's. ALWAYS a wonderful shooting experience.

Wes

Wes,

I see you rifles and I'm always in awe of both the rifles and expertise.

It makes me want something in a venable cartridge like .223 or .308. But it also makes me want to do something in a slightly more exotic like a 22-250 or 6.5x55.

Again, nothing crazy, but something I could hone my reloading and shooting skills on.

All this to say I admire you, fritz, offgrid, Tony, and others for your shooting expertise. Nice rifle for sure.

Nice shooting.

Now stretch the legs and show what a Defiance action & Bartlein barrel can do at distance.

Functional work of art.

It’s hard for me to understand what a rifle like that chambered for 243 Winchester would be used for. The cartridge would obviously have ballistic advantages for hunting over the 223 Remington, but although that rifle setup including the scope could be used for hunting, not many people would find it ideal. But for other recreational shooting—? The 243 could be loaded to reach somewhat farther than the 223 with less wind drift, but other 6mm cartridges—not to mention larger calibers—would be better for really long ranges.

I incorrectly thought "Georgia" Precison. But found out they are about 30 miles from me in NKC. Reading staff bios, they have an amazing amount of military small arms experience.

Gents,

Thanks for the kind words. While the .243 is a fine cartridge I have to pass on it. As Sigfreund said there are better cartridges out there that are easier on the bores or outperform the .243 Winchester.

I'm currently working with a new G.A. Precision rifle chambered in .284 Winchester. It is proving to be most promising...to say the least. Here it is:



You can see my propensity for the M40A1 style of rifle. I love them and they shoot so darn well! I'll be reporting back on the .284 soon. It's going to be all the .308 is AND MORE.

Wes

Beautiful rifle, Wes! I need to learn how to build those up! Shouldn't be too hard.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
I incorrectly thought "Georgia" Precison. But found out they are about 30 miles from me in NKC. Reading staff bios, they have an amazing amount of military small arms experience.

GAP is "Gnat's Ass Precision". George Gardner has assembled a quality team of gunsmiths who also shoot, and he's done a decent job of marketing his company.

As I understand it, back in the early days of tactical/steel shooting, Remington 700 rifles ruled the roost. Decent rifles, but not the most consistent in quality. Actions were often trued for better accuracy, factory barrels were pulled for aftermarket options, and triggers were tweaked. Taking notes from lessons learned in bench rest competition, George started with better components -- Defiance action, Bartlein barrel, McMillan stock, hand-tuned Remy 700 trigger. Then he assembled them carefully, maintained exacting tolerances. Voila...the GAP rifle. There are other gunsmiths that can do the same thing -- some are nationally known, others work locally. On Sigforum, jelrod1 is a very talented gunsmith. I use Black Canyon Customs, who is fortunately close to my office.

I have two GAP Crusaders, in 308 and 6.5CM. After barrel changes, trigger work, pic rail changes, and adapting the stock forends for ARCA rails -- these rifles are now as much Black Canyon as they are GAP. Black Canyon built me rifles in 6CM and 223 Remy which are every bit as accurate (if not more so) than my GAP Crusaders. I dropped off Defiance actions, Bartlein & Proof barrels, Grayboe stocks (the son split from McMillan stocks), and Trigger Tech triggers to his shop, then let him do his stuff.

The great thing about GAP rifles is you know you're getting a quality-built and accurate rifle. For folks who don't have a local option, or who don't want to risk money on a lesser known gunsmith in another part of the country -- GAP works.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
It’s hard for me to understand what a rifle like that chambered for 243 Winchester would be used for.
The 243 could be loaded to reach somewhat farther than the 223 with less wind drift, but other 6mm cartridges—not to mention larger calibers—would be better for really long ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by Weshowe:
While the .243 is a fine cartridge I have to pass on it. As Sigfreund said there are better cartridges out there that are easier on the bores or outperform the .243 Winchester.

While .243 Win's performance isn't quite up to the standards of newer cartridge designs, it was/is a decent "wildcat" of the .308 Win. Both are "boomer" cartridges, in their 7th decade of existence.

Back in the days before PRS (Precision Rifle Series) competitions, there were still tactical/steel matches. Local, regional, Snipers Hide cup, & others. Maybe 15-20 years ago, George Gardner shot his .243 Win match rifle with great results. IIRC he used 115 DTAC bullets. Meaning he had to use a faster-than-normal twist 243 barrel, and had to seat the bullets much further than optimal in the 243 case. But he was winning against the calibers of the day -- 308 Win (naturally), 260 Remy, 6XC. Such matches had long distance targets, out to 1000 yards, if not more.

Fast forward to where we are now....308 Win, 260 Remy, and 243 Win have taken back seat to newer cartridge designs for target shooting -- and to a certain extent for hunting, too. Newer case designs work better for heavier bullets and for powder burn efficiency. 6.5x47 Lapua & 6.5 Creedmoor vs. 260 Remy. 6x47 Lapua & 6CM vs. 243 Win.

A primary challenge with pretty much every 6mm/.243 bore is barrel life with a 308-ish size case. For shooters demanding high levels of accuracy, 6mm barrel life can be 1/2 that of 6.5mm and 1/4 that of .308. Reducing case size to something in the 6BR family (6BR, 6BRA, 6 Dasher, 6GT, etc) increases barrel life, yet still produces rifles with outstanding flight ballistics. Even the "lowly" 6BR flies well to 1000 yards, has minimal recoil, and outshoots 223 Remy in pretty much every situation.

****
I have 6CM rifles. Great accuracy, easy to shoot. My bolt action has a Bartlein 400ModBB barrel -- harder steel than regular SS, and in theory should increase barrel life by 50-100% over SS. Time will tell.

I chose 6CM over 243 Win because the case design better handles heavy bullets. 6x47 Lapua, 6BR, 6BRA, and 6 Dasher all would have been in the cards if factory ammo existed. So far, 6CM ballistically hangs with my 6.5CM out to 1000 yards. Beyond 1000, I prefer 6.5CM -- I've seen in competition that the heavier bullets perform better in crosswinds, even if the theoretical BCs are equivalent. And the heavier 6.5mm bullets produce better splash (hits and misses), making it easier to spot impacts.

Fritz,

I'm not running down your choice of the .243. It is a fine cartridge...I've owned several. As much as I like other cartridges I'm a .308 guy and probably always will be one. The .308 does everything I want/need in a rifle cartridge. I also use the .223, 6.5 CM, and .284 Winchester. Of the three the .284 holds the most promise, IMHO. On the other hand, as they say "it's the indian, not the arrow" that makes the difference.

Currently, G.A. Precision is building me a Crusader in 6.5 CM. I'd be interested to know how you like yours...

Hold hard,

Wes

243 isn't my choice -- it was George Gardner's choice. As I understand it, this was before the x47 Lapua and Creedmoor cartridges gained traction in match shooting.

I have rifles chambered in 6CM. I shot 6 Dasher/BRA/BR rifles and would have preferred to chamber something in them, but I don't hand load. 6GT might be an option now, but factory ammo is still limited. I have no interest in 243 Win as a target rifle.

My shooting has been limited over the past two years...life sometimes makes other priorities. My 6.5CM Crusader is my primary PRS-NRL-steel-precision match rifle. I've even used it in a handful of ELR matches, although knowing it lacks the ballistics to be competitive beyond 1200 yards. For target shooting, the 6.5 outclasses 308 in every ballistics category -- but at the price of barrel life. I still train with a 308, knowing that when I get behind a 6.5 things will be easier. There's a reason some matches have 308-only entry categories...because 308 cannot effectively compete against 6 and 6.5mm rifles. My 308 barrel is getting long in the tooth, and it could crap out at any time. It still shoots SMK and Amax loads well, but is showing less consistency with ELD loads. Muzzle velocity has not yet dropped off. I have a 308 Bartlein barrel blank in the basement.

My 6CM Defiance-Bartlein will be used for lower round count matches (i.e. Steel Safari) and PRS-type matches that emphasize shooting from barriers. I feel 6.5CM is a little better choice for field-type matches -- where we shoot more from prone or off boulders, where target distances tend to be longer, and where wind sometimes factors in more. I'm on my third 6.5CM barrel, which is maybe 1/3 through its expected life. I have 1 or 2 more 6.5mm Bartlein barrel blanks in the basement. I will be shooting 6.5CM for awhile.

quote:

Bartlein 400ModBB barrel

I didn’t see this option when I bought my Bartlein. Not that it matters much in a 3006.
It’s doubtful I’m going to burn it out at my age. My gun is going to be built by Rich Reilly at High Tech Customs.

Weshowe, I’m loving the look of those rifles!

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:

quote:

Bartlein 400ModBB barrel

I didn’t see this option when I bought my Bartlein. Not that it matters much in a 3006.

The inventory of 400ModBB steel barrels is pretty low right now. I've purchased a few barrels from Bugholes, and I don't see any BB blanks in stock. In non-magnum chamberings, BB makes the most sense for 6mm bores.

30 caliber BB steel blanks are generally used for the larger magnum calibers, which are quite hard on throats. If I stepped up to a 300 PRC rifle for ELR, I would seriously look at a BB Bartlein.