quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
fritz, 51/60 no more FNG status for you!

dagnabbital, I was growing fond of being FNG.

I still get to keep the RBS ("rear bag syndrome") status. One of these days I'll hopefully figure out how to use a bag consistently -- not relaxing my squeeze right as I break the shot, which drops the buttstock, and sends the round high.

It's good to see you recognize a reason why a shot goes high. And not like so many FNG's who go into "Starbucks" mode, face in I-Phone. Gee, the DA must have gone up effecting a 400yd shot!

Offgrid and Alpine have long used .22lr trainer rifles to keep their trigger pulling skills in shape. Their efforts to develop 40X-action repeaters in short-action-sized rifles have been discussed in this thread, and and other sites. I figured it was time to consider my options. For now a new rifle is not in the cards, but I do have a Kimber sporter .22lr (5 shot magazine repeater) which is quite accurate. Although my Kimber is substantially smaller and lighter than my GAPs, it's a place to start.

First, thanks are due to offgrid for giving me a couple of his spare 3" wide by 5" tall JCSteel AR500 targets -- including hanging straps. I already have a few smaller AR500 targets -- 2"x3" rectangle, 4" square, 4" circle, 5" round. I hung all of them in a row today, then backed off to 50 yards -- the zero distance of my Kimber, which sports a Leupold VX-3, 2.5-8x, capped turrets, duplex reticle.

At 50 yards it was like shooting fish in a barrel (CCI Standard Ammo). Getting cocky, I backed off to a developed prone shooting location, which put the steel 108 yards away. I figured the drop would be about 6" -- wrong, it now appears to be about 9" per JBM. I didn't dial elevation and tried to estimate the holdover via the heavier portion of the duplex reticle. Things went....poorly. As in no hits for about 2.1 gazillion shots.

Plan B. Back to 77 yards, then 86, then 92, and finally 102 yards to work out the estimated holdovers. In spite of the ugly breezes and the SWAG holdovers, I was able to maintain 1" 5-round groups out to 102 yards. Ultimately it turned out to be a great training day -- one in which the rapidly switching winds made shooting with my 308 an exercise in futility.

I highly recommend shooting the lowly .22lr as a viable training alternative to shooting our "big" sticks. In a few weeks Leupold will deliver retro-fitted exposed target-type turrets for my VX-3, which should make my .22lr training days even more fun.

These are most of my small targets:



The orange t-post on the right supports JCSteel's double post holder. The movable Last Stand Target Stand on the left has the diamonds, courtesy of offgrid. The orange post is fixed at 108 yards from one of my staked shooting positions. From this staked shooting position I also have steel at 126, 133, 149, and 205 yards. For .22lr training days I suspect I'll place the Last Stand targets in the 70-90 yard ballpark for a wide variety of distances.

A few things I noticed about .22lr at distances longer than the 50 yards I had shot for so long:
- Bullet drop is noticeable with just a few yards change in distance. I will be happy to install the Leupold target turrets.
- Windage holds are important with just relatively minor changes in wind speed.
- For free-swinging small targets, the .22lr moves the target more than I expected.
- .22lr doesn't really chip the paint on the target. Instead, the lead just smears out across the white paint.
- Occasionally I misfeed a round (Kimber mags aren't the best design) and jam the cartridge while cycling the bolt. This almost always slightly deforms the bullet's soft lead tip. A little bullet deformation makes a huge difference in flight ballistics.

Nice setup there fritz, I need to get my 22LR range finished before the snow starts to fall. For me there's a fine line between getting them high enough so they don't end up under the snow come February, and low enough that I can paint them in the Summer without having to use a step ladder.

FYI - Big Dog Steel is having a sreel target sale on the Hide on small targets.

Well, Offgrid and I shot the Sporting Rifle Team Match in Raton this weekend. Offgrid did very well both days. However, my poor performance the first day with the AR hurt our standings. I was having issues with my impacts starting to rapidly drop as my barrel warmed, and at times also scattering. I was also encountering some pierced primers intermittently. I was using Surplus Mk262 ammo, and it was the same lot of ammo that I used at the same team match last year, and the Competition Dynamics Team Match that fritz and I competed in, both with zero ammo problems.
I did very well the second day with my bolt rifle... Dasher!!! Shooting a 54, which ties my best Raton score. I think I could of walked away from the match with a 56, but I feel we got hosed on one stage that had a broken (missing) target that everyone else was convinced was there. This caused me to loose time arguing with the other shooters, wasting time, thus rushing my last two shots and missing those targets.

Both of us were suprised that we ended up in third place, recouping our entry fee of $120. A nice ending to some bitter moments.

Third place, woo-hoo! How did this team match compare to the regular monthly match?

Any ideas on what caused your ammo issues? Definitely strange, because it worked for you at both the 3-day CD Team match and the day we trained at Travis' place.

fritz,

glad you put those 3x5 diamonds to use. 22LR are great trainers. 100yds, a little wind, banging steel, fun stuff.

Team match. Stages/targets same as individual match. 5 minutes to shoot a stage. AR guy goes first, hit any 4 targets, unlimited rounds, AR guy can stop anytime regardless of hits.... target distances 200-600yds. AR guy clears his action, bolt guy shoots the six targets, one shot hit or miss. Day two, switch guns. Most of the stages we could set up right next to each other, watching each others impacts, helping with wind calls.

We had the high combined bolt rifle scores, Dashers! Bummer Alpine's AR had a problem. He's a solid AR shooter, no doubt he would have cleaned. Oh well, we'll be back next year.

First time shooting my recently put together 20" AR in a match. 300rds on it going into the match, mostly at 100yds. Worked up a load with 77SMK's. Learning how much to load the bi-pod, how that effects how consistently I shoot it to the same POI. Been fussing around with the grip quite a bit, moving clockwise/counter clockwise, trying to find the spot. Alpine brought a larger "tactical" Ergo grip for me to try, much prefer it over the standard Ergo. Shot well on the practice range, confirmed dope, consistently drilled a 5" round at 500yds Missed just 5 shots during the match, 2nd round hits on those. Happy with how it shoots, getting the hang of driving it. With a 3-15 scope on the AR vs 5-25 on the bolt rifle, I did find myself a couple times wishing I had a little bit more magnification, longer distance targets in the shadows. Actually try to turn it up a couple times. Oh, that's it. Have 1900rds now on the Dasher barrel shot in this match, shooting lights out. The confidence I have in these Dashers....

That sounds like a fun team match. Nice shooting alpine and offgrid.

I like that small target rimfire setup fritz. I've been trying to figure something out to do for rimfire practice at my 100 yard range that's closest to me. I found this and bought it but it's not come in yet. Looks like it should be a fun reactive target with some challenges for positional shooting. I should be able to set it up between 50 and 100 yards there. I'll update once I try it out.



http://www.salutetargets.com/2...e-steel-targets.html

It's the one called The Challenge. Not sure why I can't direct link to its page. Hoping it will be an easy setup to take back and forth.

Yep, Dashers rule. What's next -- a Dasher AR?

offgrid -- I think you have answered two questions. (1) does your AR shoot and (2) can you shoot an EBR? Missing only 5 shots with the EBR? Jeepers, I didn't even do that with my bolt action.

You guys make a hard act to follow. I entered JJ's one-man bolt action & AR-15 match, to be held next weekend at Raton. Should be boat loads of fun humping both rifles at once.

fritz,

have fun at JJ's match!

Shooting your AR w/o the suppressor?

Here's the detent gas block for going between suppressed/non...

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-SO.750

JJ's match will likely be a little different than yours. Preliminary info states for each of the 10 stations there will be 10 targets for the AR (could be up close paper through mid-distance steel) and 5 targets for the bolt gun (common steel match distances).

I toyed with my 18" AR over the weekend, shooting different groups with Hornady 75 match and Federal GMM 69:
- suppressed with the TBAC can
- suppressed with the SOCOM can
- unsuppressed with the APA Gen 2 LB brake

Not much difference in feel between the TBAC and SOCOM cans, although I think the TBAC is a bit quieter. The APA LB brake is LOUD. Obnoxiously loud after firing the cans. The report is possibly worse than my 6.5 Creed with the APA FB brake. But the LB brake really shuts down recoil -- the recoil reduction advantage of brake vs. can is similar to what I see with the 6.5 Creed and 308 Win. Did I mention that a braked AR-15 is loud?

Anyway, I'm leaning toward shooting the AR with the SOCOM can, as I produced slightly more consistent groups with it. Also, I may be able to keep the QD mount for the SOCOM tighter than I could with the direct thread TBAC.

So....in the "I continue to be a sheep dip" mode, I didn't wrench down on the LB brake when I was comparing groups. Well, it loosened ever so slightly. I could see three nice holes in the paper, almost touching at 100, then shot #4 and #5 were 1", then 1.5" low. WTF? Oh, the brake's a bit loose. Same result as the cans -- loose muzzle device and rounds go low. I guess the ARs rattle muzzle devices a whole bunch more than our bolt guns do.

***
I do like the looks of the JP gas block, and I will definitely investigate it more. Offgrid -- is this what you're using in you new uber-AR?

fritz,

my gas block is a standard adjustable JP. Set it once.... MileHigh Shooting Supply is a JP dealer.

My adjustable gas blocks are Syrac. Work very well, and cheaper, too, I'd imagine. JP gear is nice, but they sure are proud of it...

Kevin Thomas publicly confirms that Lapua is going to start making Creedmoor brass:


http://forum.accurateshooter.c...brass.3908200/page-2

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Kevin Thomas publicly confirms that Lapua is going to start making Creedmoor brass:

Interesting. I don't keep up with this kind of thing, but I just figured Lapua would do everything to emphasize their 6x47. I guess this means the Creedmoor chambering might stick around for a little while longer.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Kevin Thomas publicly confirms that Lapua is going to start making Creedmoor brass:

Interesting. I don't keep up with this kind of thing, but I just figured Lapua would do everything to emphasize their 6x47. I guess this means the Creedmoor chambering might stick around for a little while longer.

Lapua's cartridge is actually 6.5x47. The 6x47 is a wildcat.

JJ's two-gun match was outstanding. Each of the 10 stages were mix of 5 precision targets (many of the monthly Raton Sporting Match's targets) plus 10 AR-15 targets (essentially 3-gun-type carbine targets). So....15 targets in 5 minutes, with movement on every carbine portion of a stage, often starting the clock with pack on and both guns slung. Many of us felt like we had our collective asses handed to us at end of the stations. Time management and efficient shooting were key.

I placed in the top 20%, which means I shouldn't quit my day job. And that I have to practice on 3-gun-type shooting positions a boat load more. But I did score an LWRC piston upper from the prize table -- I don't know squat about it, but it called my name. I missed out on snagging the last Nightforce scope by one position. Oh well, next time.

More on the format of the match at a later time, but right now I'm tired from the long days and the long drive home.

I will do this match again. I am really beginning to learn how much I have yet to learn.

fritz, congrats on your strong finish. LWRC piston upper, very cool!

Percentage of the shooting...bolt rifle, longer range AR, short range AR?

if you guys are looking for a new steel target to try, a good friend of mine who runs a steel company just started making them. He dropped off a few for me to try and they are fantastic so far.

http://www.bennettbolt.com/gunrifle-targets/

they dont do retail right now, but he told me if any friends wanted to try them out to shoot him an email. jk@bennettbolt.com

offgrid -- The upper is an LWRC 5.56 IC Enhanced 16" fluted barrel. I chose it over a KAC 14.5" pinned DI upper. The KAC evidently is worth a little more, but I already have good DI uppers. To be honest, I didn't realize the LWRC upper was so pricey.

JJ stage #1 was Sporting Rifle March ("SRM") stage 5.
Start with pack and carbine grounded. Precision Rifle ("PR") in hand at low ready, loaded, on safe. Time starts, drop to ground. Steel at 300-625 (targets 2-6 for SRM). Clear & ground PR, grab AR, engage four 1/3-ish size IDPA paper targets while moving forward 30-40 yards, IDPA targets at 10-20 yards. At designated marker engage 2 steel at 100 yards (one medium, one small), 2 steel at 115 yards (one medium, one small), 1 steel at 180 yards (large), one steel at 220 yards (large). Weeds were too high for sitting or prone.

Small carbine steel targets were likely in the 4-5" range, medium likely 6-7". Large targets in the 10-12" ballpark.

JJ stage #2 was SRM stage 1.
Start with pack and PR on back, carbine loaded at low ready. While wearing pack and PR, move to right, engage 4 IDPA paper and 2 clays. Ground carbine, PR, and pack at PR position. Engage small and medium steel with carbine at 150, large steel at 250 and 315. Transition to PR, steel at 420 through 875 (yes, the "car door" high on the hill).