quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
What I would take away from your scenario, practice shooting unsupported.... That practice will not only pay off for a stage like the above, will also transfer over to other stages with limited support.

I concur. I do need to practice unsupported standing carbine shooting. I have some ideas of how to do this with both steel and paper targets.

During that stage we shot some steel that was definitely less than 100 yards away. I will not shoot that close with my own steel and normal ammo. Therefore I'm looking to buy some frangible 223 ammo for close steel carbine/pistol training. I ran about 100 rounds of frangible through my carbine at a Rifles Only helicopter assault course a couple of years ago, so I know it works.

For those of you that have seen (and carried - thanks again, fritz!) my rifle, you'll be happy to know I just ordered a pair of 1:8 4-groove medium palma barrels from Krieger. They should be drop shipped to Jon within the next month. One was in stock, the other was a heavy palma they are going to re-contour down to a medium palma for me.

I'm at 1374 rounds right now, with 3 out-of-state matches left for the year, plus practice.

That should put me right on schedule with when my name will come up in Jon's to-do list again.

I don't plan to go past 2500 rounds on this barrel - a number given to me by Frank at Bartlein. He said all things being equal, if it were his rifle, and he wanted to make sure it didn't go down during a match, that's where he'd pull it - even if it was still shooting.

Another teaching moment from the Wyoming match with Alpine.

Two of our assault stages required carbine use on paper IPSC targets at distances between 5 and 50-ish yards. Scoring a hit on the IPSC required any of the following:
- 1 impact in the A zone (2"x4" in head or 6"x11" in torso)
- 2 impacts total -- 1 in B zone (6"x6" in head) plus 1 in C zone (12"x17" in torso)
- 4 impacts total -- 4 in D zone (18"x24" torso)

The zones weren't highlighted, but rather were designated just with the faint scored dividing lines. I could not really see the zone dividing lines at distances beyond 10 yards. The numerous pieces of masking tape covering prior teams' impacts didn't help. I haven't practiced much with IPSC paper targets, and thus I didn't have an instinctive "that's an A zone hit" feeling. On our initial close targets I fired two rounds at torso A zone, even if I was virtually certain I drilled the center of the A zone. Shots fired increased to 3 per target on a stage requiring kneeling shots at multiple IPSC targets (9 or 10-ish, between the two of us) about 50 yards out -- mainly because I felt myself yank a shot to one side.

I believe alpine and I scored hits on every paper IPSC we engaged. Walking back along the targets after the course of fire, it looked like we pretty much drilled the torso A zone with the vast majority of our shots. So in other words, we spent a number of extra rounds (and time) to be certain we didn't receive any "failure to engage" penalties.

The teaching moments:
- It would be better if we were more confident on the A zone size and location. We both are good enough with carbines that we didn't throw very many (possibly even 0) sheep dip rounds into the D zone.
- Shooting the extra rounds to confirm center hits cost us time. In many of the assault stages, our downfall was time -- we hit the targets, but we didn't score very many time bonus points.
- As with most stages, I really would have liked to shoot them a second time with a different strategy (say, one round per paper IPSC), and then compare scored results.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

- As with most stages, I really would have liked to shoot them a second time with a different strategy (say, one round per paper IPSC), and then compare scored results.

That, right there, has been a learning point for me.

*after* I shoot a stage, I always think of something I would have done differently, or how I could have squeezed out an extra point or two. Always *after*.

I need to be more creative in my initial evaluation of a course of fire, and less reactive/evaluative after the fact. (not to say that I shouldn't evaluate my own performance after the fact, just that I need to "shift the balance" more toward getting better ideas on how to do things before shooting it, not after)

I try to watch shooters before me, to get an idea for what they are doing, but it's usually the little things that get me, the things they do that you don't readily see when casually watching.

Just like with everything else, this sport is VERY mental.

If any of you are interested in 140 hybrids, bullets.com has the 500ct boxes in stock. Limit 4 boxes per day.

In case you were wondering, 4 boxes is $795 shipped.

Shot today at a new range to me. I've been there one time last year but joined it this week. They've expanded since last trip and go out to 1500 yards now. The 1500 berm was washed out from heavy rain so that wasn't available today but will be back in service soon. Wind was light and varied from zero to 3/4 mil hold at 1000. Took 3 shots with the 6 creedmoor on an 8" swinger at 1200. Missed the first and hit the next two. Shot the below three shots on a 1000 plate holding 3/4 mil wind. I'm happy with the vertical this load is giving. Going to go to my normal range next time and and put it on paper at 1000. Will also dial wind for the group shooting. Very happy so far with this caliber though. I think I can get in some good practice at this new range. Can definitely build solid dope from the place.

Such a pretty sight, that long swath cut through the woods to send lead... Wish I had that here.


What made you decide 6creed over 6x47? The more and more I think about it, and talk to other guys, the more and more a fan I am of small primer cartridges....

I do a lot less things for "me" these days and instead try things for the first hand experience. I got this reamer in recently and just wanted to try it. So far very impressed. Load development was just so easy. I like the small primer cartridges too though for many reasons and will probably do another one of them too at some point (6x47 or Dasher). Have those reamers too... Another factor for me and the 6 creed was the abundance of 6.5 creed brass I have from my other gun. Not going to need brass for a long time.

ETA: Rounds shot today were with virgin 6 creed brass bought from GAP. It's nice factory brass is available for it. Can easily neck down 6.5 brass though.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jelrod1,

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Such a pretty sight, that long swath cut through the woods to send lead... Wish I had that here.

It's a nice place for sure. Wish it was a little closer for me but happy it's available at all. They have a lot more things too that's fun. A large area dedicated to 3 gun, multiple pistol and rifle bays, and a shoot house. Lots of opportunities for training. Even has an upstairs "lounge" that you can stay in overnight if needed. I may try to hold a Sigforum shoot there in the spring. Also, They are open to me holding competitions there. Not sure I want to manage all that but is a possibility anyway.

When I first got there this morning the wind was dead all around. Walked out targets from 200 to 800 getting dope shooting dead center. Next shot at 1000 was 3/4 mil right miss. WTF? Couldn't see any indicators but could tell there was a valley in between 800 and 1000. Couldn't see much from the line but after driving down is a large opening between there and a deep valley/draw running through. I've got some learning to do with the place to try to keep tabs on what's going on consistently. Screwed with me a few times.

If you hold a spring shoot there, I might just will definitely make the trip. Please do keep me informed!! Email in profile.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: exx1976,

Between ranch work and storms I had very limited time behind the trigger over the holiday weekend. However, I did get my older sister and brother-in-law behind an AR-15 again. Last year my sis tried the AR at 200 yards on steel. Once she realized a 223 doesn't recoil all that much, she settled down and had a blast. Earlier this year she asked if we could do it again, but maybe stretch things out to 250 yards. Prior that initial AR session, she had never shot beyond 100 yards in her life.

My range definitely has more steel this year. We plopped down at what I call the 300 yard line, and after fiddling a bit with the buttstock length she started dinging the 10" plate at 300 yards like clockwork. Then it was on to a 12" plate a 343 yards and a 10" plate at 355 yards, both of which she hit well. One thing she found interesting was the time delay between "pow", seeing the impact, and finally hearing the impact.

I'm slowly making the family clan a fan of evil black rifles.

Hey fritz, are you shooting the T3 match this weekend?

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:
Hey fritz, are you shooting the T3 match this weekend?

Yep, I'm in. How about you? I'm interested in hearing more about your last match.

Yes, I plan on shooting T3 also. See you there.

Wish I could join you guys.

Still planning on trying to get there in November. Put it on your calendars!

So....more tactics moments from the Wyoming match with Alpine.

For all stages using carbines, there were no limits for the number of rounds we could fire our ARs at a given target. We needed one shot at a target to show we engaged the target, which eliminated the "lack of engaging" penalty. Additional shots which missed a given target drew no penalty -- they just consumed time.

Both Alpine and I pretty much drilled targets with our carbines out to 350 or 400 yards, as it wasn't too hard to deal with wind out to those distances. The real challenges came with the 500 to 600 yard targets, where switching winds often tossed our poodle shooter rounds all over the place. It's definitely hard to give up on a target and move to the next one when you're so close to hitting it -- a few inches to the left, then a few inches to the right, then a few inches to the left....

Therefore, banging away at the longer targets ate up time, but that had to be weighed against the time consumed by switching to the other shooter -- as only one team member could shoot at a time, and the shooter must be in a specific location.

Ultimately we decided that in the field stages (one carbine and one precision rifle), it made more sense for the carbine guy to take a limited number of shots on the long targets. The precision rifle guy would then take over (only one shot per target), but the precision rifle could better handle the wind. Interestingly, Alpine's 6.5mm bullets had roughly half the wind drift of my .223 bullets at distance. Assuming I could dope the wind speed (sometimes yes, sometimes not so much), Alpine had a lot of target hits with the precision rifle.

IMO time was our biggest enemy at this match -- both in the field stages (carbine & precision rifle) and assault stages (carbine & carbine). I guess we didn't always execute offgrid's advice of "shoot fast and don't miss".

exx1976, any chance you can come out in October?

Paul said that the October match may be the last one as they are getting ready to negotiate the renewal of the lease contract, and the future remains uncertain. If it is the last match because the lease ends, no worries as they are looking at a couple other locations in the area.

You missed a good match, wind was calm at times, blowing as much as 13-15 mph when I was in the middle of stage 1 (the far targets), and a few times tricky, but over all not bad.

Kudos to Alpine for being the top banana for yesterday's T3 match, with offgrid placing a strong third. Strong shooting, guys. As for me, I seem to have left shooting fundamentals in the car when we drove from the warm up area to the start of the match -- finished middle of the pack. My wind calls weren't the best on the long station #1 (only 4 hits), but blew only two wind calls on the rest of the stations. Kinda frustrating when sheep-dip trigger pulls, bipod positioning, rear bag technique, and body alignment take you out of the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:

but over all not bad.

Says the guy shooting a 7saum/180 Hybrids! Nice shooting.

Several stages the wind changed twice if not three times when I was shooting. Stage 8, I held 3 mph left, 5 mph right and center to get on target.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:
exx1976, any chance you can come out in October?

Paul said that the October match may be the last one as they are getting ready to negotiate the renewal of the lease contract, and the future remains uncertain. If it is the last match because the lease ends, no worries as they are looking at a couple other locations in the area.

You missed a good match, wind was calm at times, blowing as much as 13-15 mph when I was in the middle of stage 1 (the far targets), and a few times tricky, but over all not bad.

Well, I *could*... Keep me in the loop, please. I am already registered for a match in Wall, SD that same day, which is why I was going to plan for November. But - if it's going to be the last one, I can forgo the SD match (it wasn't much money) and go to t3 instead. So, let me know.