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Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
I just picked up an 055Pro3 in CF, and a hog saddle.

I'll bring it along.

see you tomorrow at the practice range, I assume?


Alpine, another buddy and I will be there. Glad the temp/humidity looks manageable for this high altitude shooter! Just ran numbers on JBM for 1625', 7.0 MILS to get to 1000yds with my 6x47, yikes! Ah, it's just a number.


I'd make sure you have more dope than that.. I don't know for sure, but their Facebook site shows some targets at 1440.

Weather.com shows a high of 89. I was hoping for about 10 degrees less, but it's far better than the 104 two weekends ago.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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Match bound.





The forecast high has gone down to 86. Here's hoping it gets lower yet!




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shoot fast, don't miss, nothing to it! ... or however that goes...

*****
offgrid -- nice example of support for alternative positions. Too often in gun threads we get wrapped up in the guns themselves, but bypass technique.
 
Posts: 6951 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
off of sticks/tripod..


I have a tripod and saddle that I have practiced with a little, but adding the shooting sticks looks like a significant improvement. What brand “sticks” do you prefer?

Also, you mention being able to slide the rifle on the PRS saddle. Mine is the Hog saddle that I purchased some time ago before knowing about the advantage(s) of any other type. You make a good point, and I have some Teflon tape that’s intended to be used on stocks for the same purpose, and perhaps I’ll put it on the saddle to see how that works.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43986 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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Congrats to alpine on a 7th place finish in a very difficult field, at a very difficult match.

Offgrid also did well - 12th, I believe.

I did better than I expected, but not as well as I had hoped, coming in at 25th.

The field was 50-some-odd guys deep, and made up of some very good shooters. Lots of PRS competitors, including Jim See (won the 2015 heatstroke and is currently ranked #4 or 5). It was a very difficult match. Windy, but not crazy, mostly 1.5 - 2 moa diamonds, LOTS of positional stuff, including the seasickness platform. The kyl stage sucked, so did all my pistol shooting (I need to work on that).

But, I managed to finish in the top half, and didn't take any zeros on a stage, so there's that.

This was a great match, and I'll definitely shoot it again next year.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: exx1976,




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Alpine
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exx1976, it was good meeting you at the match, and thanks for the beer afterwards. I was really craving a cold one after being in that humidity all day.

Great match. I felt like my performance was just dwindling as the day dragged on, and was really surprised when they called my name. First thing that went through my mind was, that they had to have made a mistake?

Anyhow, it was tough for sure. Very well organized, and everyone there was great.


----------------------------------------

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

George Carlin
 
Posts: 908 | Location: Colorado, and as far away from Denver as I can get. | Registered: March 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great match Alpine, exx1976 and I shot on Saturday. Beautiful place to shoot in Nebraska. Very challenging for sure, small targets, long distance (max 1468yds), tough non-prone shooting positions, pistol targets and that ever changing wind.

Most matches we are able to request our squad mates, shoot with your buddies. I like that this match was random squading. I was squaded with last years match winner, also shot with him at a PRS match in Albuquerque earlier this year, consistent shooter, good wind reader, great imagination for dealing with the positional stuff, glad I shot with him. He was a few points ahead of me after 4 of the 15 stages. Came to the Know Your Limits stage, 5 pistol targets at 22yds/8" first, then 5 rifle targets at 605yds, rifle targets large to small, smallest I believe was 4". Can stop at any time after a hit, miss start with target one again. Usually only get so many rounds to shoot a KYL, EX: 5 pistol/5 rifle rds, this was unlimited rounds with a 2:30 time limit. Most matches have one or two stages were we can rack up lots of points, this was one of those stages. I watched last years winner clean it. OK, I'm all or nothing. I clean the pistol in 5rds Big Grin Since unlimited rounds, I put a round on the base of the T-post holding up the rack to get a wind call, I can do whatever I want with my time, no way I was seeing my impact on the beat up targets. Got my wind call, hit 1,2,3 miss, hit 1,2,3,4 miss (should have stopped, wanted that 5pts for the 5th target!!), hit 1,2 miss....... took another shot at the T-post/wind was switching around, hit 1,2,3 miss... ended up shooting 21rds and timing out after a miss Frown Oh well, I'm out of it. Grinded out the rest of the stages, did OK. Lots of targets with grass behind them, very difficult or impossible to see a splash from a miss. Started seeing some elevation issues with my rifle towards the end, guessing my barrel is on its way out? Been working hard on my pistol shooting, lots of mag changes with my STI Trojan 9MM 10rd mags. Of the about 60 pistol targets, all shooting with my rifle slung on me, just missed 3 or 4 targets, practice paid off, 10rd mags didn't hurt me a bit.

Snagged a $1000 TriggerTime Gun Club certificate for any training off of the prize table, I'll take Franks (LowLights) 4 day LR class, feel I can always learn something, go there with a open mind. Class is here in Colorado at the T3 ranch where I shoot a monthly match.

We talk lots about equipment on this thread, which is fun. Shooting a match like this hammers home no equipment change would have helped me shoot better, read the wind, build a position, analyze how I'm going to shoot a stage, shoot under the stress...... To improve it's all about getting rounds down range and practicing how these matches are shot. The season is almost over for me, shooting the last match of the season in Raton next weekend, then the Team Safari match in October. After that will get on my 22lr trainer and shoot tons of rounds in all kinds of positions. Already look forward to next season.
 
Posts: 3031 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good job at the Nebraska match guys. Sounds like it was challenging. Alpine -- you rock.

Offgrid -- thanks for explaining detaining that stage. When I get a chance, I will summarize a stage or two of the match Alpine and I shot in Wyoming. From that match I'm looking at new training ideas for pistol & carbine in some of the erosion gulleys on our ranch.

IMO it's worth it to attend the Triggertime course with Frank. Go for the advanced course. Or in your case maybe the uber-advanced course. Wink When Alpine and I got our cruise through the prize table after the Wyoming match, I snagged a $650 course certificate from Magpul. Courtesy of Alpine's eyes for sure, because I would have missed it. I owe him one. Anyway, I plan to attend their carbine/pistol class next time it's offered in Wyoming.
 
Posts: 6951 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jelrod1:
The S1 dial is engraved in ¼-MOA increments while the S5 (for mil-based turrets) is marked in 0.1 MIL. Both come with a locking zero stop...."

Thanks for that info. Very interesting -- not only for the Mark 4 on my AR, but for a VX 2 (or maybe 3) that I have on a bolt action .22LR. I will keep my eyes on this.
 
Posts: 6951 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
We talk lots about equipment on this thread, which is fun. Shooting a match like this hammers home no equipment change would have helped me shoot better, read the wind, build a position, analyze how I'm going to shoot a stage, shoot under the stress...... To improve it's all about getting rounds down range and practicing how these matches are shot.


This. Every bit of this. During this match, not once did I feel that any of my equipment was not up to the task, or that I was missing some piece of gear that someone else had that could have helped me.

I have everything I need, I have SOLID equipment. Now, it's all about developing the skills to better utilize that equipment.

I need to go practice with my barricade.

I've got two more matches (hopefully) on the calendar for this year. One in Wall, SD, and then I hope to come back to the monthly T3 match in November.

I have a bunch of pictures from several of the stages that I'll post up if anyone is interested in seeing them.

Right now, I have to get back to my post in the pistol section...




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In the Thunderbeast Team Challenge, alpine and I ran through 8 "assault" courses -- with the exception of a loaner gun here and there, we both used carbines and/or pistols. Assault courses had a time limit of 5 minutes, with points earned for those completing the course under 5 minutes. IIRC we finished under 5 minutes only two or three times, and then only by a few seconds.

Our final assault course required carbines for both of us (no pistol shots). We moved left to right along a creek, shooting at 13 steel targets on the far side of the creek, with targets placed between and behind trees & bushes. We could only see a few targets at a time from any one location. As with other assault stations, once we moved forward, we couldn't move backwards without incurring penalties. Essentially, we had to shoot targets in order left to right. Each of us could engage a maximum of three targets before weapon must go on safe, then the other shooter must engage those same targets. Both of us had to hit all targets. Steel probably ranged from 6" to 8", generally hung between knee and chest height. Distances were 70-ish to 150-ish yards.

We both used our HOG saddles on tripods set at roughly mid-kneeling height, with mid-sized support pillows strapped to our upper right arms (firing hand side). We figured that the extra time of moving the tripods would be offset by better accuracy than shooting from unsupported kneeling and standing positions. We scored 25 of 26 targets -- I was just pressing the trigger for target #26 when time was called. Frickin' bummer. One downside of the lower kneeling height was that 2 or 3 of the targets were not visible due to tall grass. Both of us just estimated where the target should be hanging and broke the shots, which worked. IIRC each of us had 6 or 7 misses, mainly on the farthest and smallest targets tucked away in the deep shade between trees. All steel was black or dark gray.

Just after us was a sponsored team -- guys who evidently did a bunch of 3-gun comps. They shot from unsupported standing and kneeling positions. They scored all 26 hits, plus bonus points for finishing slightly below the 5 minute max. They shot a lot more rounds than we did (at a faster pace) and thus had a number of misses. But they ultimately scored higher than us on this stage.

So...observations on this stage...
- There was no penalty for misses other than time consumed.
- The higher standing position offered better target visibility.
- Moving tripods consumed time, but the tripods offered better stability.
- Skillsets of shooting reasonably accurately from higher unsupported positions ultimately gave these guys better results.

It's too bad alpine and I couldn't have run the stage a second time, so that we could compare tripod results to unsupported results. My family ranch isn't quite set up for a comparable steel course, but I may be able to work something with multiple paper targets.

FWIW, every shooter I spoke to thought this stage was an absolute blast.
 
Posts: 6951 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chasing Bugholes
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Sounds like a great time in Nebraska and some good shooting at a challenging match. Pictures of the territory I've seen look like an awesome place to shoot. I'd be interested in seeing any of the stage setup pics if you have any exx1976.

Offgrid--

On the KYL stage that was timed/unlimited rounds, was there a bonus for speed/time left? If not did they do that on any of the stages?
 
Posts: 1726 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: March 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
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No, there was no speed bonus on any if the stages.

There were two stages that I particularly liked - a bullseye stage at 25 or 26 yards, and a 3" steel speed rack at 202 yards (start standing, rifle staged, 5 targets, 20 second time limit).

I'll get some pics up shortly.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
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I don't have pics of all the stages. Actually, I have fewer than I thought. But here's what I've got:

12 ipsc targets. Two shots per target, and only 2 shots per target - 1/4 Point per hit on torso in 0&1 sections only - no points for headshot.



You must carry your rifle slung while shooting at those pistol targets, because after shooting at those, you had to climb up on this (note the lack of a foothold) and engage 3 different targets, 2 shots each. 2 points for first round hit, 1 point for second round hit. Total time allowed 2:30 or 3:00, I forget (including the pistol shooting & running around).



Note the fog. That's where my squad started. When we first got down there the fog was so thick you couldn't even see the last of the Pines in the foreground. That pic was taken about 15 minutes after we got down there, and you could just barely make out the first target with binos.

This was the second stage, the shoot house. Start outside the house on the left, one shot per location, all at the same target. There are 10 locations. Your entire body must be inside the frame while on the bottom holes.




This stage was shot from an office chair in the deer stand. 5 targets.



This station was 5 different positions, two shots at each position, on two different targets (but both at the same location - speed was key, so there were two targets so you didn't have to wait for one to stop swinging). Two shots from the left wooden leg, two shots from the top middle of the wooden "tripod", two shots from the right leg, then 2 shots prone (that's offgrid's rifle in the pic - a timeout was called because he broke a target), then two shots with the rifle on the wire. No part of the rifle was allowed to contact the ground at any position except the prone position. 2:30 was the allotted time.



3 shots at each of 3 targets in 3 minutes.



Distances and targets (and my dope) for the long ball stage:



2 shots per target.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
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Where in Nebraska? Looks like central NE.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
 
Posts: 19890 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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Originally posted by rduckwor:
Where in Nebraska? Looks like central NE.

RMD


Northeast corner. Center, NE.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
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Thanks. Up near Sioux City?

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
 
Posts: 19890 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fritz:


So...observations on this stage...
- There was no penalty for misses other than time consumed.
- The higher standing position offered better target visibility.
- Moving tripods consumed time, but the tripods offered better stability.
- Skillsets of shooting reasonably accurately from higher unsupported positions ultimately gave these guys better results.


FWIW, every shooter I spoke to thought this stage was an absolute blast.


That does sound like a blast. Alpine showed me a video of you two shooting one of the assault stages, it too looked like a blast. One of the many things I like about shooting matches is seeing how others shoot a stage, learn how/what I should practice. What I would take away from your scenario, practice shooting unsupported.... That practice will not only pay off for a stage like the above, will also transfer over to other stages with limited support.
 
Posts: 3031 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:


So...observations on this stage...
- There was no penalty for misses other than time consumed.
- The higher standing position offered better target visibility.
- Moving tripods consumed time, but the tripods offered better stability.
- Skillsets of shooting reasonably accurately from higher unsupported positions ultimately gave these guys better results.


FWIW, every shooter I spoke to thought this stage was an absolute blast.


That does sound like a blast. Alpine showed me a video of you two shooting one of the assault stages, it too looked like a blast. One of the many things I like about shooting matches is seeing how others shoot a stage, learn how/what I should practice. What I would take away from your scenario, practice shooting unsupported.... That practice will not only pay off for a stage like the above, will also transfer over to other stages with limited support.



Agreed. Since they published the standings from the Draw, I reviewed them pretty carefully. 24.75 points separated me from a top-10 finish. That sounds like a lot, but considering that I only hit 27.3% of the targets (the winner hit 52.5%), 24.75 points is NOT a lot of targets to hit - there were a LOT out there that were up for grabs. Heck, the KYL stage I scored a single point - the max was 22.5! I could have gotten at least 10 of those points from pistol targets (granted, not present at every match), but the rest would have come from unsupported/strange positions (or KYL, but that's a different discussion). Since most of those hits were worth 2 points each, in theory, as few as 13 more hits could have moved me 15 places up the leaderboard.

That's a tremendous difference (in terms of finishing place), and I am working on trying to do something about it with my barricade practice.

Anyone on here going to the GAP Grind?




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15662 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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