quote:

Originally posted by swage:
Offgrid

I appreciate the information. I'm 99% certain that I'll be going with the Dasher. I was about to source a barrel tonight. Thanks for the advice on twist rate. If tuning and fireforming are as easy as you mentioned, I don't see any downside on choosing the Dasher.

For the new 110s, you'll want a 7 twist, not a 7.5 twist. They'll fly out of an 8 twist even, but bc is lost by not getting them spinning fast enough. Some far better shooters than I, whom I believe, claim their ballistics show 316 with a 1:7 and 312 with a 1:8. Not sure about the new 115s, but I would expect similar results re:lost bc.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Took five shots at one of the clays, elevation dope was off by .2-.3 mils, chased the wind, made corrections... We took turns shooting, spotting for each other through our scopes. Took a break after the first run, made a small correction to my BC to get things to track. 2nd run I shot first, first shot hit a clay Next 4 shots all around another clay. Over the years I have some stand out shots, this is one of those. Lot of fun having my two buddies witness it. No doubt luck came into play!

Offgrid. "You Serious Clark?" You hit a clay pigeon at 1770 yards on the first shot of a string?

Holy hell man....

Offgrid - Satterlee just posted today's scores. Looks like that dasher isn't treating you so hot out there in WY... Here's to a better tomorrow!

The Wyoming ELR match was definitely a learning experience. It was a really good match. The distances were unforgiving to errors or variability of any kind.

Maximum shots on target were 163 by my calculation. There were 64 different steel targets, resulting in 2-4 shots at a given target per stage. All stages started in prone, with the shooting having the opportunity to align the rifle to the target. The time limit was 2-1/2 minutes for 8 or sometimes 9 shots. Timing out in our squad was pretty rare.

The closest targets were just under 500 yards. There were some long pokes. Two targets around 1425, one at 1571, one at 1683, and three just over 1700 yards. I hit only one of 1700+ targets -- a 30" circle at 1711 yards. I missed the other two 1700 yarders, both of which were bull elk targets. For the first elk I missed my first shot's wind call so badly that I impacted about two elks to the right of the bull. Probably would have hit one of his harem in tow, however. For the other long-shot elk I joked that I would have impacted if the elk would have been better hung.

Match scores were dominated by the big magnums -- .30 and 7mm chamberings. My 6.5 Creedmoor was at a disadvantage, as wind call errors were unforgiving at the longer distances. This may come as surprise to some, but central Wyoming is known for a little bit of wind. The hundreds of electricity generating wind towers in the area might mean something, but I'm uncertain. Ultimately, I was my own worst enemy due to a boatload of mental errors, which arose as less than stellar positions behind the gun, and in not-so-hot fundamentals in marksmanship. I finished middle of the pack of the 98 shooters who posted scores.

Kudos to Alpine, who shot quite well with his 7 SAUM.

There's a big question for those of us without magnum calibers in such a match. Do we suck up second-tier status with our dainty guns, our build a big-boy rifle for just one match per year? And a magnum rifle with a barrel that could be toast after 1,000 rounds. I honestly believe that without cranial-rectal inversion, placing in the top 1/3 to top 1/4 isn't out of the question in this match with a short action, non-magnum caliber. One just has to hit a very high percentage of targets within 1,000 yards and lob a few good mortars at the long targets.

I think I'll be back next year with my 6.5 Creedmoor. Density altitudes of 9,000' to 10,000' help. I hit a 3-ish foot diameter circle at 1800 yards on practice day on my third shot. My factory Hornady 140 ELD-M bullets were still flying pretty true at that distance, although they were certainly wheezing. JBM ballistics predicted my impacts really well, as long as my technique was up to snuff.

That ol' technique thingie is so critical. Maybe one of these days I'll get it down for more than 2 stages in a row.

Alpine and fritz, as always good shooting with ya. Congrats to both of you on your strong finish. An amazing place to shoot, 60+ square mile ranch.

Total beat down for this shooter! First stage, 2nd shooter, first shot hit the T-post holding up the target about a half target low at 6XXyds, huh?! Strong wind in my face, pushing the bullet further down then what is predicted, dealt with that before. 2nd shot hold top of the target, hit, huh again. Miss the next three targets/6 shots, no idea where they're going targets on a bit of crest in tall grass. Not a good start. Later we learn the distance were way off, grrrr! Next stage shooting low, have no idea what's going on, barrel take a poop, scope not tracking, me....? 14XXyd target, large rock pile in front of the target, actually skipped a shot off of a rock hit the target, impact! Wyoming winds are very difficult to say the least. Wind ramps up and down very quickly, shooting across draws, canyons, long flight times... Chasing elevation/shooting a small caliber on top of that, not a good situation. So often in a match with very difficult wind, no one wants to shoot first. I was shooting so poorly, volunteered to shoot first several times on our squad, get up share wind calls... No doubt even if I was on my game, 6mm is not even close to the ideal caliber with those distances/big wind. I do plan on shooting it next year, once again an amazing place to shoot. Very much like the fact it was an all prone match, not all the special olympics stuff. Do I show up with a proper/competitive caliber like a 7saum next year?

Yes, it's very possible to do "well" with a non-magnum 6.5.

My teammate shot the match with a 6.5 Creedmoor and finished 20th.

Glad to hear you guys had fun at least.

Positive points to the ELR match:
- all prone, no special olympics positions
- unbelievable terrain options for designing stages and placing targets
- reasonable time limits of 2.5 minutes per stage
- some targets were challenging to see, but nothing like a couple of the WTF specials at Steel Safari
- a moving target at 1185 yards...yee.frickin'.haw
- very good ROs
- scoring systems were good, and the hit indicating flashers worked on most of the long targets
- a nice variety of target distances, target locations, and target shapes

Things that could have gone better:
- incorrect distance ranges listed in the shooter's booklet for a few stages, as our squad was hosed being the first on the turkey stage
- stage shooting locations should have been spread out more. I don't like having a 3-stage herd queued up all next to each other. A good walk at high altitude does a body good.
- logistics to get to and from the first day's stage locations weren't good. It's a phenomenal place to shoot, but the 45 minute drive each way is a challenge

Here's the latest target array. It's set up primarily for pistol and 22lr, but some of the targets on the short yellow posts are visible from certain rifle shooting stations.



There are 4 T-posts on the fence line (the right most four squares) set up to hold steel. I have shooting stations out to 660 yards from which these targets are visible. The photo was taken from a likely 22lr shooting station -- 165 yards to the fence line. With a little more yucca removal duty, I think I can develop a 22lr shooting station that will be a little over 200 yards to the fence line.

There are 12 short yellow posts along the left side of the gully. It's 90 yards from the first to the last post, with most posts spaced 7-8 yards apart. I think this will be a good array for shooting while moving with a pistol. The steel is a little close for carbine work, however I may buy a JP 22ir upper with the cert I pulled from the Steel Safari prize table.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Here's the latest target array. It's set up primarily for pistol and 22lr, but some of the targets on the short yellow posts are visible from certain rifle shooting stations.



There are 4 T-posts on the fence line (the right most four squares) set up to hold steel. I have shooting stations out to 660 yards from which these targets are visible. The photo was taken from a likely 22lr shooting station -- 165 yards to the fence line. With a little more yucca removal duty, I think I can develop a 22lr shooting station that will be a little over 200 yards to the fence line.

There are 12 short yellow posts along the left side of the gully. It's 90 yards from the first to the last post, with most posts spaced 7-8 yards apart. I think this will be a good array for shooting while moving with a pistol. The steel is a little close for carbine work, however I may buy a JP 22ir upper with the cert I pulled from the Steel Safari prize table.

You certainly do have a nice range. Wish I was closer so I could come help with the yucca removal (and bring a rifle along, of course!).

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
This may come as surprise to some, but central Wyoming is known for a little bit of wind.

Windiest damn place I've ever been, and I've been around. Sounds like a tough match!

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
You certainly do have a nice range. Wish I was closer so I could come help with the yucca removal (and bring a rifle along, of course!).

Thanks. I'm slowly developing better training options, but right now managing the land is consuming a lot of time. Yucca, thistle, lupine, and mullein weed control sucks. You'd enjoy shooting a whole lot more than the manual labor.

quote:

Originally posted by EBRfan:
Sounds like a tough match!

It was tough, but I feel I was my own worst enemy on many stages. A fun match in its own warped way.

Winning the lottery would be nice, so I could justify a short-action magnum rifle for just one or two ELR matches per year. Plus some cash for barrel-burning, and for higher ammo costs.

Just for grins I ran JBM numbers for Hornady's 6.5 PRC cartridge -- more or less a 6.5 SAUM. Dies and brass are out now; factory ammo could hit the market in a year or two.

My 6.5 Creed with 140s at 1800 yards -- mach 1.00 at target, 68 MOA of elevation, 10.6 MOA of drift at 10 mph. Estimated long-barrel 6.5 PRC with 147s at 1800 yards -- mach 1.27 at target, 52 MOA of elevation, 7.7 MOA of drift at 10 mph. hmmmm.....

What do you guys think of the Silencerco Radius rifle mounted rangefinder? Brownells has a great price on them, but I'm not too hot on hanging a pound of gear off my rifle. In theory it would be nice to range when shooting solo.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
What do you guys think of the Silencerco Radius rifle mounted rangefinder? Brownells has a great price on them, but I'm not too hot on hanging a pound of gear off my rifle. In theory it would be nice to range when shooting solo.

I think that there are plenty of other options are the market that work better and don't require you to bolt more shit onto an already heavy weapon.

Me, I prefer to try to reduce the number of pieces of gear that I carry, as opposed to increase them, so for that reason, I use binos with built-in rangefinders. Work quite well.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
What do you guys think of the Silencerco Radius rifle mounted rangefinder?

At first I assumed that the unit could be used off the gun in the conventional way that most rangefinders are used, but that turned out not to be the case. The advantage of the Radius is evidently that it can be used to range a target just by zeroing it to the scopesight and basically saying “Fetch!” The disadvantage of the unit is that it must be zeroed to the sight and can’t be used except that way.

That factor is what would make me a little nervous about using the device in critical situations because I’d be relying on everything’s remaining the same as when it was zeroed to the rifle sight. It’s true that at some point we must trust our gear, but when I don’t know for certain what the rangefinder is looking at and telling me its distance, that introduces another unknown into what is probably a bad situation already.

I could see an advantage to the Radius for situations in which time was very limited and critical in setting up for a shot. For competitors running to a firing station and trying to find and hit an unknown distance target as quickly as possible it would probably be ideal. The same would probably be true for hunters as well, except for the added bulk and weight on the rifle.

The one review I read touted the device for snipers, especially police, but I can’t say I’m impressed by that idea. I agree that LE snipers should have rangefinders available, but I would want more control over what was going on when using one. As I mentioned above, the Radius would always leave me a little worried about what it was ranging.

And perhaps more important, sometimes using a laser rangefinder isn’t as straightforward as we might assume. I can set my RF to range the closest or the farthest object in the sensor’s view. That’s very important when ranging a small target in front of a large background object like a building or when trying to look past wires or other small intervening objects in front of the target. Without that feature, and especially without knowing how large the sensor’s field of view is, things can get dicey.

A police sniper would almost always have the time and opportunity to use a conventional rangefinder, and that’s assuming he doesn’t have a spotter to perform that task for him.

A while back member alpine contacted me about a possible prize table rifle for an NRL match this month. I happily wanted to be involved. It is a 40x 22lr trainer. I did the repeater conversion, supplied and installed a Krieger barrel, paint, and bead blast. I shot it today and will ship out tomorrow. It likes Midas and CenterX.

The specs are:

Remington 40X 22lr
Krieger 6 groove HP 16 twist finished at 22"
Eley EPS chamber
Muzzle threaded 1/2-28 / blended protector
KRG chassis
Near rail

Receiver and bolt handle are Cerakoted Graphite black
Barrel is bead blasted.





https://i.imgur.com/8KCqAXw.jpg

jelrod -- Thanks for putting the 22lr rifle together the match. Someone's going to be a happy camper.

Over the weekend at Raton, New Mexico, I shot the Nightforce 2-gun match – precision rifle and carbine. This was the second year of the match. This year it was better. And harder. And I wasn’t on the top of my A game.

It’s a fairly physical match, in a nice canyon at around 6,500’ on the north end of the NRA Whittington center. Most people carried some pretty high end bolt actions and ARs with good glass – figure 30 pounds of firearms slung. Add another 25-30 pounds of pack – ammo, support bags, magazines, tripod, bipod, binoculars/LRF, food. Roughly 2-3 miles of walking for each day’s 5 stages, depending on how the stage number draw went.

Each stage had 15 targets – 10 for the AR and 5 for the rifle. 20 available points per stage, with 10 for AR and 10 for rifle. AR targets scored 1 point per hit on steel or clay targets. AR reduced-size IPSC paper was 1/2 point for A or B zone hits, 1/4 point for C zone hits, no points for D zone. Regardless of AR target type, unlimited rounds, but max of 1 point per target. Rifle targets were all steel gongs – 2 points for first round hit, 1 point for second round hit.

Carbine targets ranged from 25-400 yards. Lots of 3-4” steel at 60-125 yards. 8-10-12” gongs at 250-400 yards. Precision rifle targets were 300 to 900 yards, with most in the 400 to 600 yard ballpark.

Time limit of 5 minutes per stage for the 9 stages with known target distances. The tenth stage had to be ranged, so we had 6 minutes on it. A common stage start was pack slung, rifle slung, all tripods/sticks stowed on pack or in hand, carbine at low ready & loaded.

The following was stage #8:

Start with pack & rifle slung, carbine loaded, standing next to tree. While touching tree with body or carbine, engage 5 steel targets. Two 3-ish inch at 110 yards, then 8-ish inch gongs at 125, 150, and 185 yards. Due to the multiple trunk tree and the uneven ground around the tree, this meant standing position with no rear support from a tripod. I rested the left side of my handguard against the tree trunk and pulled on the forward part of the carry strap to stabilize the gun.

When done, put carbine on safe, grab any other gear (for many of us, a fully extended tripod), move 30-40 yards forward to second AR shooting position, with one foot on a flat rock. Engage 3 small paper IPSC targets and 2 clays on sticks, at maybe 30 yards. Many of us shot this standing, with AR supported by tripod.

Unload AR & show clear, ground AR in safe direction. Move 20-25 yards to a funky dead stump while holding tripod. Think of a big piece of driftwood, with one shooting position about belt high and another about sternum high on me. Unsling & load precision rifle, engage gongs at 225, 330, 560, 680, and 890 yards.

All 5 gongs were visible from the higher position, but only 3 were visible by the lower position. I started on the low (and more stable position) with small bag on top of wood, high kneeling position, and one tripod leg for rear support. I had first round hits on the 225, 680, and 890 yard targets – and then ran out of time before I could transition to the higher shooting position. I scored 16/20 on this stage, which was good – the top score on the stage was 18.

I was my own worst enemy in this match. A loose suppressor (yes, again) on my AR easily cost me 12-14 points on the first two stages of the first day, until I cranked it down tight enough to hold. Sheep-dip rifle technique on the first stage of the second day, cost me 6-7 points. Good thing I have a day job. The winner scored 176/200. I was about 40 points down from that, finishing a little above middle of the pack.

I timed out on most stages, so I left a number of precision rifle points on the table. Once my suppressor was tight on the AR, I think I got all my carbine points. I need to get faster engaging targets with the AR, and moving between positions with a boatload of gear on my back.

This is a totally kick-ass match. Mongo want more….

quote:

Originally posted by jelrod1:
A while back member alpine contacted me about a possible prize table rifle for an NRL match this month. I happily wanted to be involved. It is a 40x 22lr trainer. I did the repeater conversion, supplied and installed a Krieger barrel, paint, and bead blast. I shot it today and will ship out tomorrow. It likes Midas and CenterX.

The specs are:

Remington 40X 22lr
Krieger 6 groove HP 16 twist finished at 22"
Eley EPS chamber
Muzzle threaded 1/2-28 / blended protector
KRG chassis
Near rail

Receiver and bolt handle are Cerakoted Graphite black
Barrel is bead blasted.





https://i.imgur.com/8KCqAXw.jpg

As always, your work is top notch. Whoever wins this rifle is going to be real happy.