quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
And we'll make you shoot biathlon in the winter.

You do that?

No, I think biathlon would be interesting, however. But I'm a lousy cross country skier. Been racing giant slalom (alpine) skiing for decades. Now if someone could combine a giant slalom course, some powder skiing, maybe a mogul run, with some carbine/pistol shooting -- I'd be all over that like white on rice.

We’ve tossed around the idea of setting up our own biathlon or other course involving skiing (or snowshoeing for old unsteady codgers like me) and shooting in our area, but it’s hard to think of where such a thing might be possible.

Alpine, offgrid, and I shot in the Battle of Breakneck PRS match over the weekend. The weather could have been repeat of last year's blizzard, but fortunately this year the heavy snow stayed in Colorado and Wyoming, with Nebraska receiving only some rain just before the match. We shot in different squads, but were close enough to rib each other here and there over the course of the weekend.

<<ahem>> And to clarify, I spun that close target on the knoll hard enough to knock the target stand over. Technically, I didn't "break" the target....

Nebraska winds were an issue on some stages, however they generally were no more than 15 mph. The stages with winds less than 10 mph were generally pretty fun. There were a number of prone stages, with a few stages using positions we had to build from rock outcroppings. No special olympics stages -- I was quite pleased with that. Generally each stage had 4-5 targets, 8-10 shots, two minutes time limit, often starting on the gun. I timed out on very few stages.

This was the first big match where I shot with a suppressor instead of a brake. I liked the can, but I may consider the brake in matches where I have to stick the rifle into a number of barricades, tunnels, or WTF props. The can doesn't reduce recoil quite as effectively as the brake, but it still works. We had one target at 112 yards -- I built a good position off rocks (a high angle downward shot) and saw my bullet strike the plate.

It was nice to have my head out of my backside for much of the match. I finished in the top quarter, pulled a cert for a highly discounted Manners stock from the prize table. I think a 223 bolt action build is in the works.

This was really a well-run match, in an amazing place to shoot. We couldn't ask for better terrain.

Well, looks like I'm making the switch to the dark side...

After shooting my 6.5x47 in a few matches this season, and dropping points that I KNOW I would have previously gotten, I've decided I need more velocity.

My first barrel (26" MTU) sent 140 Hybrids at 2860, which is admittedly fast for a x47. This barrel sends them at 2706. That's a huge difference in how accurate my wind calls need to be.

I ordered 300 pieces of 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass, and Saturday after a local match we are going to ream the x47 chamber to 6.5 Creedmoor.

I'm shooting a team match in July (Dakota Duel), and my teammate shoots 6.5CM.

We'll see what happens. It should be faster though, and that should help. I just hope it's as accurate. Brass should be here tomorrow, and dies on Friday.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Well, looks like I'm making the switch to the dark side...

After shooting my 6.5x47 in a few matches this season, and dropping points that I KNOW I would have previously gotten, I've decided I need more velocity.

My first barrel (26" MTU) sent 140 Hybrids at 2860, which is admittedly fast for a x47. This barrel sends them at 2706. That's a huge difference in how accurate my wind calls need to be.

I ordered 300 pieces of 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass, and Saturday after a local match we are going to ream the x47 chamber to 6.5 Creedmoor.

I'm shooting a team match in July (Dakota Duel), and my teammate shoots 6.5CM.

We'll see what happens. It should be faster though, and that should help. I just hope it's as accurate. Brass should be here tomorrow, and dies on Friday.

Please let us know what your opinions of the Lapua Creedmoor brass are. I've been debating whether or not I should pick some up. The small primer is holding me back as I do not wish to bush my firing pins at this time. I've been playing with the Lee Collet die and neck sizing fire formed brass and have been getting very good results. The runout is almost nonexistent.

After speaking to my smith more in detail about *why* I wanted to do this, he suggested that I bring my old barrel, my current barrel, and the new barrel (as yet unfired) with me this weekend. He will bore scope all of them and see if he can tell me why the current barrel shows pressure signs so much earlier than the previous barrel, and if it's worth it to try a CM.

As for the Lapua brass, the whole reason I bought it was for the small primer pockets. Well, that, and it's Lapua. But if it was large primer, I wouldn't be doing it.

I'm at the Steel Safari match this weekend. Like a total sheep-dip, I left both my suppressor and brake at home. I got flustered after a long day at the office and limited time to pack for the trip. Oh well, made it a bit more difficult to see my impacts from non-prone positions.

Shot the north course today. 7 of the 8 stages were 3 targets, 2 positions. The last stage was 6 targets, 1 position. Five minutes per stage -- start with all gear off the ground, five minutes to find & range targets, build positions, and shoot. I only got 33 shots off out of a potential 48, scoring 23 hits. Rumor has it that top scores on all three courses were in the 35 to 40 ballpark.

Finding the targets can be really difficult. On a number of the 3-target stages I only found 2 targets -- I shot at them and moved to the second position, never finding the 3rd target until the RO pointed them out to me. I was preceded by a noob to the Safari like me, the shooter behind me is quite experienced -- he shot a 35.

The Safari is an amazing match. Time pressures, target finding skills, some interesting shooting positions, movement between positions, some shooting off a tripod. Most targets on the North course were between 250 and 500 yards. Seems pretty easy from a bench on a square range. Things here are a bit.... different.

Day two, west course. I found more targets, however the wheels came off near the end -- a combination of a "special Olympics" stage and some rough wind. Scored 25 on 38 rounds fired. As with yesterday's north course, 8 stages, 6 shots per stage. Four of the 8 stages were 1 shooting position and 6 targets, the others were 3 targets and 2 shooting positions. The 6-target stages weren't kind to me, both in finding the targets and timing out.

The wind got nasty on the last stage, due to an approaching rain storm. Wind from my 3 o'clock, coming down a canyon. Shooting from prone on a funky rock position that didn't support our legs past mid thigh -- knees and feet dangling in mid air. First target was 460 yards. Held 10 mph wind and center punched it. Target two at 570 yards, held 10 mph again, big time miss -- my spotter thought I held wrong side wind or yanked it. Nope, held 10 mph, measured impact at roughly 25 mph wind value. Talk about a gust. Hit third target at 600 with 15 mph wind.

This is fun in its own warped way. Top scores on all three courses yesterday were 40 (out of 48). I figure I'm near middle of the pack.

Jlemmy and entropy came up (along with others) this past weekend and we got some long guns out. For the first time since I built them, I shot my trainer and my competition gun back-to-back. Conditions hadn't changed much, so I was able to get a feel for the actual difference in wind. It was more than I thought. x47 needed edge of plate on a 1moa plate, while the trainer needed a little over a minute (620ish yards).

Much fun was had by all though, and man, I sure do love that trainer. Jlemmy and I spoke about the value of having a practice gun that is a near exact duplicate of your competition gun - thanks to offgrid for that!

Day 3 on the south course could have gone better. I cleaned the first stage with a minute to spare, starting on a high point. Then the wheels fell off. Funky shooting positions off rocks -- I wasn't the most stable, almost certain didn't have my eye in the scope properly, parallax was probably off. Oh yeah, and switching winds. Up canyon for a few shots, then down canyon, then at you back for no wind value.

Throw in 85-90 degrees heat while hiking with pack & rifle. Targets that I #&$%* can't find. There was a 10" diamond-shaped plate roughly 300 yards away. That's naked eye close. The previous shooting & RO tried to point it out to me for a few minutes without luck, and I'm searching with 10x Swaro binos. Finally he puts my rifle on a rock, puts the cross hairs on the target, and now I see it. I had to do the same thing for the shooter after me, whom I RO'd.

I finished about 2/3 of the way down the list. Not my finest hour.

Over the past few years I have changed my focus from clays shooting to rifles. It has been a challenging journey. Initially I could transition well from shotguns to rifles, although rifles to shotguns wasn't a big deal. I found trap to be a bit too repetitive, and the personalities of some trap competitors to be....challenging.
-- "Don't congratulate me between rounds -- it ruins my concentration, might give me bad luck."
-- "Quiet on the line. No talking." (yeah, 'cuz ported shotguns are so quiet)
-- "Spent hulls of a semi-auto bouncing at my feet are distracting. Buy an over/under." (Try a freshly-ejected, skin-searing .223 shell lodged between your shirt & neck during a group carbine course exercise, with multiple hot guns on the line. Concentrate on the target, dude.)

Skeet was more social, however there are guys who don't compete when it's windy -- their season average score might suffer. Or they gripe with the clays don't go through the exact center of the hoop. (Dude, just aim at the frickin' target. Learn to adapt.)

Sporting clays is more social, has greater camaraderie, and shooters realize perfection isn't a fact of life. I still like sporting clays.

****
IMO the skill sets for shooting a precision rifle aren't all that easy, but the fundamentals of marksmanship are relatively straight forward. Applying them on a square range, with no time pressures, and no wind isn't too bad.

Then there are conditions to mess with us. The Precision Rifle Series ("PRS") and National Rifle league are definitely an examples. So are local/regional steel matches.

And of course, Competition Dynamics' matches. The individual Steel Safari, in which I just shot. The Team Safari, which I'll shoot with offgrid this fall. The Team Challenge, which I shot with Alpine two years ago, and will do again this summer. Time pressures, target identification, target ranging, building solid shooting positions, wind reading, movement & fitness requirements, and solving general logistics problems. Such matches require overall rifleman's skills. It's going to be awhile before I get a handle of this.

I think I'm just beginning to learn how much I have to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Things here are a bit.... different.

Gotta shoot the Safari to understand that! Look forward to shooting the Team Safari with you in October.

Shot with two buddies today, shooting my Dasher/115 Dtacs. Wanted to confirm dope for a up coming long range, very long match. First shot off at 6:45 to beat the heat, mirage. Started at 850, then 1060, 1365 and finished at 1770yds. Wind 5-12 from 9:00-11:00. Managed to get first round hits at 850, 1060 and 1365. Dope tracking perfectly so far. At 1365 practiced a few times.. shoot, while the bullet is in the air, rack the bolt, get back on the target, up against the 2nd stage of the trigger, watch impact, make a correction if needed, shoot. Some days at the distance I can pull that off, not today, maybe too early in the morning to be trying that! 1770yds a 24" square steel as well as 6 shotgun clays in a line. Idea with the clays it's very easy to spot impacts/splashes around the clays, make adjustments for follow up shots.... Took five shots at one of the clays, elevation dope was off by .2-.3 mils, chased the wind, made corrections... We took turns shooting, spotting for each other through our scopes. Took a break after the first run, made a small correction to my BC to get things to track. 2nd run I shot first, first shot hit a clay Next 4 shots all around another clay. Over the years I have some stand out shots, this is one of those. Lot of fun having my two buddies witness it. No doubt luck came into play!

Shooting position. Target about a 3rd way up on the hill. Ranch in the background guessing 3 miles from the target. Fun Stuff!

Nice. A mile is a long ways with that dainty Dasher.

The wind was ugly in my neck of the woods yesterday. Lobbing bullets at distance would have been a waste, so it ended up being a pick & shovel day.

Bigfoot. One of the targets Alpine, fritz and I will be shooting at this weekend in Wyoming. Targets from 490-1770yds. Wyoming, big space, big wind, big fun!

Bigfoot.... reminds me of the movie Young Frankenstein, when Gene Wilder is discussing the size of the monster with Terri Garr.
- In other words -- his veins, feet, hands, and organs vould all have to be increased in size.
- Exactly.
- He vould have an an enormous schwanzstucker.
- That goes without saying.
- Voof. He's going to be popular.

Bring on big...foot. Be vewy, vewy quiet. We're hunting wabbit foots.

Offgrid- I have a Defiance Deviant with the small firing pin and I'm deciding which 6mm variant I want to build on it. The 6mm Dasher is appealing because of barrel life compared to the other 6mm variants.
I see Norma is making factory brass for the 6mm Dasher now. Do you have any experience with their brass or do you fireform? I see many published loads using Varget or RL15. I have some Varget on hand currently. I've read everything I could find online about the 6mm Dasher. Whom would you suggest to chamber a barrel for me? Thanks in advance for your response.

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
Offgrid- I have a Defiance Deviant with the small firing pin and I'm deciding which 6mm variant I want to build on it. The 6mm Dasher is appealing because of barrel life compared to the other 6mm variants.
I see Norma is making factory brass for the 6mm Dasher now. Do you have any experience with their brass or do you fireform? I see many published loads using Varget or RL15. I have some Varget on hand currently. I've read everything I could find online about the 6mm Dasher. Whom would you suggest to chamber a barrel for me? Thanks in advance for your response.

The Norma brass SUCKS. Not only do you get pressure signs much earlier than with Lapua, but it's also not made to spec - so you either have to trim it straight out of the box, or you need to get a Norma reamer.

Fireforming Dasher is easy.



Everyone else - I gave up on the creedmoor thing. Is anyone is interested in 300 pieces of Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass, new never used, drop me a line.

swage,

The Dasher is silly accurate round, silly easy to tune. I previously shot 6x47's. The Dasher easily shoots inside the 6x47's with much better barrel life.

I'm fire forming Lapua 6BR brass. It is very easy, load brass w/o doing anything to it, jam a bullet .030, 28 grains of Varget, soft primer. You'll be surprised how accurate those random FF loads will be!

Norma vs Lapua FF? There's two other Dasher shooters around me using Norma brass. Similar loads/velocity to me. Neither has very many firings on their brass. I have 20+ on my original brass. Brass life of the Norma is a unknown now. Maybe I'll switch to Norma down the road? The Norma neck is longer, you'll ether have to trim it or use a reamer designed for the Norma brass.

H4895 in my first two Dasher barrels. Shot SLIGHTLY better then Varget. Two barrels I'm shooting now, both Varget.

Suggest a 7.5 twist barrel to take advantage of the BC of SMK 110's or 115 Dtac's. 105-107 bullet will do great in 7.5 twist as well.

I'm using 10rd AICS mags with the feed lips slightly flared. Thousands of rounds through them, 100% reliable.

Dies. Forster micrometer seater, Harrel's FL bushing sizer. Send a couple fired cases to the Harrel brothers, they match up one of their stock dies. Believe they have 8 different size Dasher dies. Their turn time is a couple days.

Sig Forum member jelrod1 has chambered my Dashers. Great guy to deal with, excellent machinist, highly recommend him. He has both the Lapua and Norma reamers.

Offgrid

I appreciate the information. I'm 99% certain that I'll be going with the Dasher. I was about to source a barrel tonight. Thanks for the advice on twist rate. If tuning and fireforming are as easy as you mentioned, I don't see any downside on choosing the Dasher.