quote:

Originally posted by mew:
Why not just push the forward pin out and separate the upper/lower hence the same thing for $349 less?? Are they really trying to say levers and lining up everything is a better mouse trap? It looks just like a regular SBR, solution to nothing IMO or am I missing something.....

As noted on the Cry Havoc page, the longest of the two parts is the upper, which includes both the upper receiver plus the barrel length. When you separate at the barrel, the upper component gets shorter, but the lower component doesn’t get much longer since it already includes the lower receiver, which is about the same length as the upper receiver. Overall, it’s a more compact package. I’m assuming that the AF has length limitations on items that can fit in an ejection seat.

http://cryhavoctac.com/qrb-kit.html

With pilots getting burned to death while alive by ISIS, this is a good idea.

I agree our Airman need an SBR for a bailout scenario, but just don't see the need to reinvent the wheel for 3" in length, it just reeks of wasting taxpayer money. And Colt already makes a compact variant. Another point not mentioned is, what if the pilot is injured and now he can't get the barrel gizmo assembled to fire the weapon? Murphy and KISS principal apply. Just sayin.....
COLT SCW
https://www.colt.com/detail-pa...b-compact-weapon-scw

quote:

Originally posted by mew:
I agree our Airman need an SBR for a bailout scenario, but just don't see the need to reinvent the wheel for 3" in length, it just reeks of wasting taxpayer money. And Colt already makes a compact variant. Another point not mentioned is, what if the pilot is injured and now he can't get the barrel gizmo assembled to fire the weapon? Murphy and KISS principal apply. Just sayin.....
COLT SCW
https://www.colt.com/detail-pa...b-compact-weapon-scw

Are you missing the part where it needs to fit inside a 16" long ejection seat survival kit? Yeah, those inches matter...

Besides, attaching this barrel isn't any more difficult than an upper, especially if the BCG flops out the back onto the jungle floor at night.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo

Are you missing the part where it needs to fit inside a 16" long ejection seat survival kit? Yeah, those inches matter...

Besides, attaching this barrel isn't any more difficult than an upper, especially if the BCG flops out the back onto the jungle floor at night.

I think I did miss it because the havoc is 17.5"
and the Colt SCW has a special buffer and tube that folds so the BCG can't fall out by design.

quote:

Originally posted by mew:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo

Are you missing the part where it needs to fit inside a 16" long ejection seat survival kit? Yeah, those inches matter...

Besides, attaching this barrel isn't any more difficult than an upper, especially if the BCG flops out the back onto the jungle floor at night.

I think I did miss it because the havoc is 17.5"
and the Colt SCW has a special buffer and tube that folds so the BCG can't fall out by design.

The one on their website is their commercial offering, not the Air Force's version, and is 17.5" because it has a 16" barrel. Presumably you could put a 14.5" barrel and make it 16" long.

If you are pissed off about the USAF spending money on this program, you really have no idea of the magnitude of .gov / .mil waste.

At least this is going to something remotely useful.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
If you are pissed off about the USAF spending money on this program, you really have no idea of the magnitude of .gov / .mil waste.

At least this is going to something remotely useful.

No sir I fully understand it which is why I'm pointing out the other choices. How about 5.56 pistols? there are other options. Everybody here seems to love the idea, to each his own. I worked local Gov. for 30 years, not as wasteful as Fed. but not much different. And my son just discharged from USAF in Feb.18 so I'm fully aware of the waste and corruption my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by mew:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
If you are pissed off about the USAF spending money on this program, you really have no idea of the magnitude of .gov / .mil waste.

At least this is going to something remotely useful.

No sir I fully understand it which is why I'm pointing out the other choices. How about 5.56 pistols? there are other options. Everybody here seems to love the idea, to each his own. I worked local Gov. for 30 years, not as wasteful as Fed. but not much different. And my son just discharged from USAF in Feb.18 so I'm fully aware of the waste and corruption my friend.

No, you obviously don’t understand. The SCW has a 10.3” barrel, same as a MK 18. Even if you seperate the upper and lower, an AR upper with a 10.3” barrel is 16.55” in over all length and does not fit into the availible space. Not to mention the SCW is thicker than the availible 3.5” depth when folded, even if you use s slick side upper without a forward assist.

The 10.3” MK 18 style upper is already running on the ragged edge of reliability. Anything shorter is not going to run reliably.


Re waste - the USAF armorers are converting these from existing rifles the USAF already owns. What would the GOV cost be for an SCW ? I’m willing to bet conversion is cheaper.

What, exactly do you meant by a “5.56 pistol” ? Do you mean something with a sig brace ? How is that more effective than an SBR for an organization not subject to the NFA ? Or do you mean a true 556 pistol without a stock / 4 points of contact - because that is just stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by bigmule:
3,2,1...oh boy, I smell Clone fever over at ARFcom...

Well it is a decent example of KISS, I’ll give it that.

Ok yeah, those spongebobers are gonna have a field day with this one.

^^^ Well, then we ought to get plenty of feedback on the Cry Havoc system before I shell out for one. That works.

"Well, then we ought to get plenty of feedback on the Cry Havoc system before I shell out for one."
I bought and installed a couple when they announced this to see how I liked it. works fine if that matters to you. I happen to have decided that I prefer other options, but there is nothing wrong with this system that I can see.

Interesting concept with a pretty narrow application. But I would have enjoyed knowing that I had one of these in my seat pan, giving me more than an M11 with a couple of magazines should I have to shell out of the aircraft.

quote:

Originally posted by bigmule:
3,2,1...oh boy, I smell Clone fever over at ARFcom...
Well it is a decent example of KISS, I’ll give it that.

bigmule

Midwest Industries is all ready selling a clone pistol version of it here.
https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/MI-GAU5-P-
5-56-Clone-Pistol-p/mi-gau5a-p.htm

James

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I bought and installed a couple when they announced this to see how I liked it. works fine if that matters to you. I happen to have decided that I prefer other options, but there is nothing wrong with this system that I can see.

It does. My big question is return to zero - to the extent it doesn't return exactly to zero, is it consistently off in the same direction?

Of course that may be apples and oranges - I was thinking of sending in a 7.62x39.