What does the brain trust say? this gun wouldn't be for shooting more than 100 yards at the very most.

discounting platform, which would be better for that range?

They are about the same at 100 yards (we are talking about supersonic loads), but the .300 AAC Blackout has longer legs past 300 yards, because of higher B.C. of the bullets used.

So, get what you like.

With that said, the .300 AAC Blackout has better bullets/load selection in self defense, most of 7.62X39mm Soviet is FMJ, with some JHP, that are mostly ineffective at expansion or fracturing.

Also, if I was picking the 7.62X39mm Soviet round, I would go with the AK 47 platform, alot of AR 15's choke on that round, yes there are reliable ones and they can be made to work, but magazines for the AR in that caliber is a challenge.

Going with the .300 AAC Blackout, you have the AR 15 platform, plus other modern designs. With them, easier to mount optics, lights to.

Plus, with the.300 AAC Blackout, you can easily get subsonic loads and run a suppressor. The AK 47 platform is very hard to suppress.

But as rounds go, within the 100 yards range, they are pretty close.


ARman

quote:

Originally posted by ARman:
most of 7.62X39mm Soviet is FMJ, with some JHP, that are mostly ineffective at expansion or fracturing.

There are several excellent options for US-made hunting/defensive loads for 7.62x39, including Hornady SST and Federal Fusion.

Some of the Russian JHP ammo is also quite effective, such as the Ulyanovsk 8M3 load.

quote:

magazines for the AR in that caliber is a challenge.

So far the C Products Defense mags seem to be working for everyone who's tried them, and that's in quite a variety of rifles these days. Out of the eight 28 rounders and eight 20 rounders I've tried in two Armalites and a Stag lower, only one 20 rounder is headed back to the factory.

FWIW, they drop free from the Armalite magwells and most drop free from the Stag magwell. The few that don't are easily tugged out.

At this point I'd be tempted to go for the 7.62x39 on the basis of ammo cost alone. If you'd like something that isn't on the market, PPU and Sellier & Bellot brass are both just fine to reload with. American Eagle isn't bad, either.

quote:

The AK 47 platform is very hard to suppress.

You'd need to ask someone who reloads for a suppressor to be sure, but apparently the 7.62x39 isn't very easy to reload for maximum quietness either. The Russians wound up going to a specialized 9x39 cartridge for the purpose.

Then again....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...07/07/potd-9x39mm-us

IMO 7.62x39 is never a good choice in an AR.

In the interest of reinforcing discounting of platform Let's assume this is a choice between a mini 14 and a mini 30. that's not the case but we can now assume the same basic platform.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
In the interest of reinforcing discounting of platform Let's assume this is a choice between a mini 14 and a mini 30. that's not the case but we can now assume the same basic platform.

I'm not sure how to answer that. The big problem with an AR 15 in 7.62X39mm is magazines. There isn't that many companies making truly reliable magazines in that caliber.

It's because of the extreme case taper off the 7.62X39mm, the problem lies in the AR 15's magazine well, it's fairly deep, so the magazines have to be straight at that point. In which it mess up the feeling, the extreme tapered cases don't get fed at optimal angle. Then jams happen.

The 7.62X39mm is happier being fed from magazines that have alot of curve from top to bottom, because of the taper of the case. Just look at the AK 47 and Vz58 magazines.

If you look at an AR 15 magazine in that (7.62X39mm) it is straight at the top, even though it's body has more taper then the 5.56X45mm equivalent. It's a non optimal feed angle.

So, fo me 7.62X39mm lives in the AK 47 and Vz58 platform, where as the 5.56X45mm and .300 AAC Blackout is in the AR 15 platform and other modern designs originally chambered in the 5.56X45mm caliber using STANAG (M16) magazines.

Now, if you are taking about a Ruger Mimi 14 type rifle, the magazines can be (and are) more curved in the 7.62X39mm caliber, so it would be more reliable in feeding that caliber.

But discounting platform, between the 7.62X39mm with a 122/123/124gr bullet (the common bullet weights) at 2,350 fps, and common .300 AAC Blackout in that same bullet weight range with a velocity of 2,300 +/- fps at 100 yards, the performance will be about the same. But since the .300 AAC Blackout uses higher ballistic coefficient bullets, it tends to retain velocity better so it's a little flatter shooting (still a rainbow trajectory) but flatter non the less and more energy.

If we are talking about 12(?)gr fmj bullets at 2000 +/- fps from ether caliber, the will have similar performance at 100 yards.

The .300 AAC Blackout wins, in my book though because there are more hunting and self defense loads for it, they are much easier to find. There are 110gr loads, 120, 125, 147, 150gr supersonic loads in ballistic tip, soft point, hollow points FMJ, then you get into subsonic loads in the 180, 190, 208, 220gr class in all the different types of bullets.

With 7.62X39mm you have 122, 123,124gr bullets in FMJ and some hollow points, most of which do not expand or fragment (there are a few really great preference loads in this caliber)****but they are hard to find, and not available all the time****.

So less good quality defensive and hunting ammo in that caliber. Let's face it, most people with an AK 47 want cheap blasting ammo to shoot dirt. Not alot of people hunt with their AK 47, so few loads were developed for it.

So, if it's self defense use. For me that means an AR 15 platform in .300 AAC Blackout. More choices in ammo purpose driven for self defense.

Ballistically, both calibers have around the same velocity, bullet weights, energy, and drop at the 100 yard mark.


As said before, if wanting to suppress the AR 15 is much easier to do then the AK 47 platform. The AK 47 can be suppressed but it's harder, and subsonic ammo in 7.62X39mm is extremely hard to find.

ARman

ARman, are you sure of your velocity figures? And of the AK's role as a hunting rifle? None of that jibes with anything I've seen before or what I remember of the early '90s. Nor, for that matter, does it jibe with what RogueJSK said and what I've seen for myself as far as hunting ammunition goes.

Are you sure you aren't just stuck on information you picked up some years back? And have you actually tried the CProducts Defense mags? I've fired hundreds of rounds through them myself - FMJ, softpoint, hollowpoint, and premium hunting loads from Federal and Winchester.

ETA: Not that this is dispositive, but I just did a quick search for factory .300 loads to see what's available. Winchester and Federal have 150 grain loads at about 1,900 fps. Hornady has 125 grain loads, which are running about 2175 fps. The only loads that reache 2,300 fps from the three companies I checked are Hornady's 110 grain loads. Magtech and Sellier & Bellot both have 123 grain loads, so their ammo may be comparable to 7.62x39, but I didn't see any velocity data for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

magazines for the AR in that caliber is a challenge.

So far the C Products Defense mags seem to be working for everyone who's tried them, and that's in quite a variety of rifles these days. Out of the eight 28 rounders and eight 20 rounders I've tried in two Armalites and a Stag lower, only one 20 rounder is headed back to the factory.

FWIW, they drop free from the Armalite magwells and most drop free from the Stag magwell. The few that don't are easily tugged out.

At this point I'd be tempted to go for the 7.62x39 on the basis of ammo cost alone. If you'd like something that isn't on the market, PPU and Sellier & Bellot brass are both just fine to reload with. American Eagle isn't bad, either.

quote:

The AK 47 platform is very hard to suppress.

You'd need to ask someone who reloads for a suppressor to be sure, but apparently the 7.62x39 isn't very easy to reload for maximum quietness either. The Russians wound up going to a specialized 9x39 cartridge for the purpose.

Then again....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...07/07/potd-9x39mm-us

My experience mirrors that of Il Cattivo ... although I don't shoot it a lot, I haven't had any issues with it and I shoot it suppressed with my YHM TI 30 can standard with Wolf ammo. While is was still super-sonic it wasn't noticeably louder than my 300BO with supersonic ammo ... Even with the can I'd still recommend hearing protection while shooting it with supersonic ammo.

Now all that said, I haven't tried loading any subsonic AK rounds ... a buddy of mine was doing some "by guess and by golly" experimenting with subsonic loads in his AK and got a bullet stuck about 1/2 way down the pipe and ruined the barrel ... but I always start at supersonic and work back and use a chorny.

We have an ak pistol and 300bo pistol, the blackout is much quieter and less blast. I don't shoot subsonic.