I’m sure it’s been discussed to death but, I starting researching for a soft recoil, fairly accurate long range (500 yards) round to teach the younger kids how to shoot a bolt action. Kids ages are 11-14 girls and boys. The 308 bolt rifle was a little much for them. I also wanted to start teaching them the rules of reloading. The joys of creating and shooting your own reloads is important to me.

Anyway, the 6.5 CM seemed like the perfect round so I bought a used Ruger American And dropped it in a Magpul Hunter American stock for a grand total of about $500 in the rifle. We shot about 300rds and they had a blast! They call it their sniper rifle..

I’m not into long range shooting. 300 yards max with my 556, 300 BO and SCAR but, I can see where shooting out to 700-1000 yards could be a lot of fun. I was surprised at just how accurate the 6.5 CM is even in a cheap rifle. Kids ringing the 6” steel plates at 400 yards all day long.

I’m seriously considering building a CM in the AR15 platform. Low recoil, accurate and not real expensive if you reload.

I'm a big 6.5CM fan. I was always a .308 guy but the 6.5 just outshines it in practically every category.

6.5 Creedmoor -- the 12-year overnight success story.

308 Win was probably considered a passing fad by some in its infancy.

One of these days, 6.5CM shooters may pooh-pooh 6mm calibers. Especially if factory ammo options abound, and if they increasingly become the standard for competition, plinking, and/or hunting. Especially something along the lines of 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6 BRA, or 6CM.

6.5CM works well for many shooters and many applications.

My older neighbor recently got a 6.5 Creedmoor. It’s very much a favorite with him for local deer and his WY antelope hunt. He got some upper end Browning bolt rifle.

I have 2, 6.5 ‘Swedes’, so that’s our 6.5. The ballistics are similar, longer case. One is an older milsurp, the other a bolt CZ rifle.

Not that I need it but I bought a Ruger ‘Flat Bolt’, Mod 77 Rifle yesterday in 284 Win, from 1970. I wanted a partner to my Micro-Medallion in 284.

The Creedmoor got some nice traction, should stick around.

Its a gateway cartridge..... You'll want to move on to smaller, lighter, faster cartridges that have even less recoil and are more accurate. 6 BRA, 6 Dasher, ect.

Just kidding. 6.5 CM is a great round. Simple to reload. Good bullet and powder choices. Great ballistics.

Strech it's legs. It has the ability to go 1200yds consistently. Have lots of fun with it.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by D4Heavy:
I’m seriously considering building a CM in the AR15 platform. Low recoil, accurate and not real expensive if you reload.

Actually, a 6.5CM or 6CM would be built in an AR-10 platform.

With good components, a Creedmoor AR-10 is quite accurate. The real accuracy challenge comes from the shooter -- the fundamentals of marksmanship are much more critical in the AR-10 platform. There's a whole lot more gas flowing in the system, the BCG is heavier and moves a longer distance, the recoil pulse is heavier and lasts longer.

If I didn't already have my tack-driver, I'd certainly consider it.

I like my TRG-22 chambered for the cartridge for the reasons mentioned, but even though I’m not completely familiar with all of the ways it’s used, I predict that the 6.5 Creedmoor will slowly lose its luster. Although it has indeed been around for over a decade, it seemed to me that when it suddenly went nova on the shooting firmament, it was being used by highly skilled shooters with precise handloads or high quality factory ammunition out of exceptional rifles equipped with top tier sights.

As it becomes more familiar to and popular with other shooters, though, that will change. The rifles and the sights used will become less expensive and lower quality, the shooters using the cartridge will be less skilled, and the quality of the ammunition will become more uneven. I noticed just recently that Sellier & Bellot is offering a full metal jacket load that’s available for 55¢ a round as compared with the high end Hornady stuff I shoot at $1.25 per (when I can find it that cheaply). I’m not going to buy any of the S&B to confirm my suspicions, but I cannot imagine the two will perform at the same level of precision. What happens when someone buys cheap ammo, sight, and rifle because they’re cheap, and doesn’t get the spectacular results he’s been led to expect?

And then there’s the trend we’re seeing already of the top shooters’ drifting away from 6.5 to 6mm. They’re going to be touting those cartridges and explaining how much better they are than the 6.5CM.

All that will result in more people becoming disenchanted with the round: “Hell, I don’t know what’s so special about the 6.5; it’s no more accurate than my pre-64 model 70 in 270.”

That’s my prediction, anyway, and probably as good as any of mine have been.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I predict that the 6.5 Creedmoor will slowly lose its luster.

Nobody can accurately predict the future, so we are all guessing here. I predict 6.5CM will continue to grow in popularity. Some have called it the new 308 Win, or more likely stated, the 308's replacement for many shooters. I doubt 6.5CM will ever surpass 308 in popularity, but it has -- and will continue to -- eat into 308's market share.

The facts are that 6.5CM accomplishes what many shooters like in a 308, but with less recoil, less bullet drop, and less wind drift. For a .308-caliber bullet to achieve drift and drop of a good 6.5 bullet, it needs to be in the 200-208 grain ballpark and be driven at MVs attainable only by magnum chambers -- say 300 WM or 300 WSM. Such magnum 300s produce a lot of recoil; roughly double that of a 6.5CM. Enough recoil that few people will actually enjoy shooting a magnum 300.

Furthermore, I have yet to see anyone who shoot a magnum 300 as accurately as a non-magnum caliber -- whether it be 308, 6.5CM, 243, 6Dasher, 223, or whatever. Probably the most accurate shooters I've seen behind a 300 magnum are instructors at Rifles Only -- they're just amazing. But they're even more amazing behind a 308 and lesser-recoiling rifles.

I don't think the availability of reasonably-priced factory FMJ ammo in 6.5CM will turn people away from the caliber. Lower cost ammo might even push some to buy a 6.5CM rifle, as they may be able to justify the ammo cost. Putting ball ammo in perspective, I doubt FMJ loads have taken the luster from owning or shooting 308 Win or 223 Remy rifles.

6mm chamberings may be the next big wave of caliber growth. For now the 6mms are primarily for the hand loaders. Sure, there's 6CM, which has some following in steel match circles. But currently there's no realistically-priced and readily-available commercial loads for smaller cased 6mm -- such as 6Dasher, 6BR, 6BRA. The 6mm rifles definitely offer lower recoil than the 6.5s, but at a cost of reduced barrel life. I think many shooters can tolerate the 3,000 to 4,000 round barrel life of 6.5CM, but 1,500 to 2,500 rounds of certain 6mm doesn't sit well with some gun owners.

One challenge with 6mm bores is the average joe may not consider the caliber big enough for their hunting needs. And for the larger North American animals, there is something to be said. So I think the 6mm will grow in market share, but probably remain as a more of an accuracy-based, lower-recoiling, steel ringing & paper punching family.

****
I will upfront admit that I'd really like a 6Dasher / 6BR / 6BRA rifle if reasonably-priced loaded ammo was available. I was hoping that Prime Ammo would go this route maybe a year ago, but no dice. These 6mm rifles are a pleasure to shoot and they perform exceedingly well in the increasingly popular use of barrier & prop shooting positions in PRS-type events.

Awhile back, offgrid and I shot at a Wyoming ELR match -- targets of maybe 500 to 1700 yards. He used a 6Dasher, I used a 6.5CM. My 6.5 bullets were wheezing on the longer targets, but his 6 bullets were struggling even more. Thus, the 6mm isn't better than 6.5mm in all instances.

The first batch of 6 Dasher brass will be shipping out in April. I will post more info when I get my allotment.

I agree with Fritz. The popularity of the 6.5 CM will continue to grow, especially in the hunting circle. As more hunters now want to harvest at longer distances, they are turning to proven long range calibers. We can certainly argue to appropriateness of doing do and the ethics of it. But, it is being driven by the cartridge proving itself in competition.

I cannot predict whether it will supplant the 308 Winchester (now considered field-grade artillery). But it's popularity is increasing rapidly and old stand-bys are equally decreasing.

Just my thoughts.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by D4Heavy:
I’m seriously considering building a CM in the AR15 platform. Low recoil, accurate and not real expensive if you reload.

Actually, a 6.5CM or 6CM would be built in an AR-10 platform.

With good components, a Creedmoor AR-10 is quite accurate. The real accuracy challenge comes from the shooter -- the fundamentals of marksmanship are much more critical in the AR-10 platform. There's a whole lot more gas flowing in the system, the BCG is heavier and moves a longer distance, the recoil pulse is heavier and lasts longer.

Ahh yeah AR-10 platform. So in my experience My 308 semi-autos recoil less than my 308 bolt rifles. You are saying that 6.5 in AR-10 platform will recoil more than the same in a bolt rifle?

Edit: Since I’m teaching my kids, especially the girls who love going to the range, how to shoot a rifle, recoil is a big deal for me. The first question I always get is “dad, does it kick hard?” I don’t want to scare them away.

Sorry, posting before the caffeine kicked in this morning. I meant to state the AR-10 in 308/6.5 has noticeably more recoil than an AR-15 in 223. As a result, it's harder to shoot an AR-10 as accurately as an AR-15 -- all other things being roughly equal.

An AR-10 in 308 or 6.5 will produce less recoil than a comparable weight bolt action in 308/6.5. But it's definitely a longer pulse recoil, and I feel that big BCG move around. Proper alignment behind an AR-10, a good trigger press, and a solid follow through are really important to precision AR-10 shooting.

I've pretty much come to the point that I can shoot an AR-15 quite accurately with very little warmup. I have to think a lot more to shoot an AR-10 with the same precision -- there's just so little room for sloppy technique. Last fall when I was shooting my 6.5CM a bit more frequently, I found I would drill three or four rounds really well, then get excited/sloppy and jerk the next round into another county.

My AR-10 is pretty heavy. With a can it's really quite fun to shoot -- the recoil pulse is slow, smooth, and reasonably light.

After spending some time behind a 6mm CM...I'm hooked! 6.5 is sweet, the 6's just do it that much more...uh...nice

I put together another mountain rifle using a Tikka T3x superlite In 6.5cm with a leupold vx5hd 2-10 and it’s become One of my favorite rifles.

I went and changed to a mountain tactical trigger spring and mountain tactical bottom metal and used DNZ low huntmasters.

It will be my sheep gun come August.

I wouldn't consider the Creedmore "low recoil." It is close to 308.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
I wouldn't consider the Creedmore "low recoil." It is close to 308.

The low recoil is probably because of my 14lb rifle setup. Scope, suppressor, bipod etc..

My kids noticed the felt recoil difference between the 308 and 6.5 and to me that’s what mattered.

quote:

Originally posted by D4Heavy:

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
I wouldn't consider the Creedmore "low recoil." It is close to 308.

The low recoil is probably because of my 14lb rifle setup. Scope, suppressor, bipod etc..

My kids noticed the felt recoil difference between the 308 and 6.5 and to me that’s what mattered.

Probably the best way to describe 6.5 is "lower recoiling" than 308. The recoil charts I see are generally calculated with 8-9 pound rifles. Depending on load with such rifles, a 308 produces 16-18 foot pounds of recoil, whereas a 6.5CM produces 12-14 foot pounds of recoil.

I have virtually identical 6.5CM and 308 bolt action rifles, which weigh somewhere in the 17-18 pound ballpark. I see noticeably reduced recoil in the 6.5CM. The 6.5's lower recoil allows me to see impacts on targets at shorter distances, allows me to watch my own bullet trace at shorter distances, and disrupts my sight picture less when shooting from unsupported positions.

This and many other post really has me looking at a new 6.5CM rifle.

I have a 6.8spc AR that I have been hunting with that really shoots nice, 1MOA at 200 with 120gr SST....which really shocked me not because of the rifle or round but because I was pulling the trigger

How much does barrel length effect the 6.5CM, I would ideally like a 20" as I hunt from a blind and even my 18" AR is a bit of a pain to move around in it. To the point that I have been debating for a year whether I want to have it cut or buy one of the 12.5" from ARP.

See this barrel length vs. MV test for the Creedmoor:
6.5CM MV tests

In general, the more bottle-necked the case, the more its MV will be affected by barrel length. Thus, from a 308-ish-sized case -- 243 (6mm) is affected the most, then 264 (6.5mm), then 7mm, then 308, and finally 338 is affected the least. But for reasonably "normal length" barrels and many types of game, the changes in MV and kinetic energy may not have all that much effect on the shooter's needs.

What animals are you hunting?
What distances are involved?
What do you feel is adequate energy on target for the given animals?
What type and weight of bullet do you feel is adequate?

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

See this barrel length vs. MV test for the Creedmoor:
6.5CM MV tests

For us hand-loaders the above test is flawed. 26" vs 20" barrel, load will be different. Shorter barrels have a completely different power curve. I'm basing that on my own experience loading for/shooting a 22" and 26" Dasher, shot them both at the same speed. Obviously had to dump more powder in the case of the 22" barrel, no pressure signs, didn't harm my brass.... Obviously with the higher charge a little less barrel life. 22" barrel load would have pressure signs in the 26".

I chambered a 6.5CM 8+yrs ago. Heard all the crap from stuck in the '70's 308 shooters..... 6.5CM is here to stay.