Hey all-

Chronographs: what works?

I am currently deciding between the Labradar and the 2 trim levels of Magnetospeed.
I am not interested in the optical screen based types. Too much light interference, in the desert.

What have you tried? What have you liked?

Bruce

Very happy with Labradar. Rarely take a shot in practice without it. It is easy to set up, lasts for dozens of hours using an external battery (can charge your phone too), stores all the data on an SD card indefinitely, never misses a shot* and does not touch the rifle or impact your shots in any way.

*There are going to be those who will tell you that the Labradar misses shots and especially suppressed shots. As you posted in the Rifle Room, I am assuming that you would use the Labradar at an outside range. There can be problems using it indoors on a short range though some of those issues can be overcome. I have helped several people set their Labradar up to stop missing shots suppressed or not. Folks who say it fails to pick up some shots just don't know how to set it up OR something might be wrong with the unit. I have seen one (just one) that had a defective mic on the left side (there is one on each side). The owner had to put his Labradar to the right of the rifle to insure no missed shots.

There are plenty of new mounting options for the Magnetospeed that eliminate my #1 gripe, which was having to strap it to the barrel. When comparing them side-by-side, shot-for-shot the results were identical between it and the Labradar. I would not want to strap it on my barrel but now you don't have to.

One thing I really dislike about the Labradar is that when shooting from prone you have to crawl over to end the current string and start a new one--if you want to keep strings separate. There is an app that I have used on an iPhone 6 Plus, 7 Plus and 8 that is garbage--other folks may be having a different experience. Mine disconnects after a few seconds and is generally useless. I like the wired display and remote buttons of the Magnetospeed and wish Labradar offered a wired equivalent. If you shoot from a bench, the inconvenience is much less.

I'd say you can't go wrong with either but I do love the Labradar.

henryrifle

I've seen tests where Labradar and Magnetospeed are considered tops in accurately measuring MV. So you're down to good options.

My comments from a Labradar thread a few weeks ago:
"I have used a Labradar unit twice. The first was indoors at a 100-yard zero confirmation and MV testing for a long range precision course. At that time I used a brake on my 6.5 Creedmoor. The Labradar unit performed flawlessly and it confirmed the MV from my Magnetospeed unit.

The second time was outdoors just before a precision match, with a new barrel on my 6.5CM, while using a TBAC suppressor. The Labradar correctly picked up only 2 shots out 30 or so. With the new barrel my MV was speeding up, going from roughly 2700 to 2800 fps by the end of the match. The Labradar's owner did just about everything possible with the unit to obtain good readings with the can on. But there were a lot of no readings, plus MVs from 500-ish fps to over 4,000 fps. For those of us who shoot suppressed, I find the Labradar virtually worthless."

This labradar unit was owned by a PRS shooter who has been around enough to shoot through multiple rifle barrels. He knows how to set up the unit -- even attaching his own bubba "aiming unit" (aka a stiff plastic tube about the size of a drinking straw) on the Labradar's aiming notch in order to get a more precise aim. He shoots his rifles both with and without suppressors.

BTW, after the match, the Labradar owner tried again on my gun -- both with the can and bare muzzle. It worked flawless without the can, but didn't get a single reading out of 5 with the can.

I use a TBAC Ultra 9 can on a 6.5CM. Based on RO feedback at matches, it's one of the quietest setups they experience. Match ROs have trouble picking up the sound of my shots with shot timers -- on timed PRS stages the ROs often stand just forward of my left elbow (prone position), reach forward with the shot timer, and stick it right next to the can. I've actually told a couple of ROs to move their arm, as it was blocking my vision through my scope.

*******
A primary advantage of the Labradar is it doesn't affect the harmonics of the barrel. Thus, if you can obtain readings, you can shoot for groups, POI, and/or elevation at the same time as measuring MV. A downside is that if you shoot from benches & bays at a public range, you may have trouble setting up the unit.

A primary disadvantage of the Magneto is putting a somewhat movable weight on the end of the barrel. With heavy profile barrels this usually doesn't shift POI downward, but it generally does affect barrel harmonics. I get tighter groups without a Magneto than I do with one. There are systems which eliminate this issue by mounting the magneto to the stock. I don't shoot enough chrono to need one.

Honestly, I don't measure MV all that much. Just a few times per year. My primary times are:
- Barrel breakin. Chronos allow us to know when a new barrel has stopped speeding up -- often occurring around 100 rounds.
- End of life barrel testing. As throat erosion becomes severe, MV begins to slow down. About every 1000 rounds or so, I confirm MV of my match ammo to see if MV is remaining consistent.
- Testing new ammo for MV.
- Once I get two 5-round MV test groups that are consistent in average and spread, I see little reason to use a chrono. I shoot and move -- different positions, different targets. I can do this with a magneto, but the additional MV readings don't provide value.

I have never seen or used the magneto sporter, so I don't know how it compares with my V3 unit.

RN - This thread might provide you a few more points of feedback.....Mark

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6350028944

As I replied in the other thread... Magnetospeed is the best, most reliable answer. It works - period.

There are too many short comings with the Labradar, batteries, triggering, fragile, data harvesting, ect. And it's more expensive.

The Magneto Sporter is a more limited version of the Magnetospeed. In my opinion, not worth it.


Andrew

Thanks for all the input and the link to the other thread.
I did search but didn't find it.

I will keep doing research but the Magnetospeed V3 is sounding like the tried and true option.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by El Cid 92:
As I replied in the other thread... Magnetospeed is the best, most reliable answer. It works - period.

There are too many short comings with the Labradar, batteries, triggering, fragile, data harvesting, ect. And it's more expensive.

The Magneto Sporter is a more limited version of the Magnetospeed. In my opinion, not worth it.


Andrew

And there's no problems with the Magneto Speed? Both have a learning curve. Just search the internet for problems when it comes to the Magneto Speed.

With that said, the Labradar or Magneto Speed would be my choice. I went with the Labradar because the Magneto Speed changes the POI when attached and there's less to setup when firing different firearms during a range session. Batteries really aren't a problem, just use an inexpensive portable cell phone battery backup to power the Labradar. Data harvest? A Excel spreadsheet are perfect for all that data you'll harvest. Cost? Do the math and you'll see the cost is about the same when you compare the more expensive Magneto Speed to the Labradar and after you add all the extras to make the Magneto Speed easier to use.

The biggest issue with the Labradar is learning how to aiming the unit and getting shoots to register. But like any new technology, the problems are overcome with learning.

I decided to go with the Magnetospeed V3. While the Labradar is super cool, the MSV3 seems like a solid, reliable choice.

Bruce

There was no bad choice between those two. For folks who also want to chrono pistol shots or even archery, that would make the Labradar the better choice.

If you are a hand loader the data is invaluable. If you are more interested in the speed and consistency of factory ammo then either are great.

Enjoy your new measurer!

Henryrifle

I will start by measuring some premium factory ammo and working up some data on my rifle.
Handloading will come once I get some baseline data and complete my reloading setup.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I decided to go with the Magnetospeed V3.

That works. Some tips:
- There are two plug in ports for the data cable on the bayonet unit -- one on the rear that opens to the rear, and one in the middle that opens straight down. My middle port produces funky readings, but the rear port is 100%. Most people use the rear port.

Getting the bayonet parallel to the path of the bullet is important, but don't get overly anal retentive about it. Instructions state the bayonet should be 1/4" below the bore. I've experienced accurate readings with the bayonet anywhere from 1/4" to 3/4" below the bore. Just make certain the bayonet won't be impacted by the bullet -- the bullet will win that battle.

On occasion my unit's screen gives me an error message with two MV readings, because the two concurrent methods that a Magneto uses to measure MV are different. If you have a "no reading" for one of the MVs, delete it and go on. If you have two MV readings within a few fps of each other, and both readings seem reasonable, just delete one and go on.

With heavy profile barrels and no suppressor, I can shoot for MV, group sizes, and POI all at the same time. The problem really comes with suppressed AR-15s. With the magneto on the can, POI can drop a little, but group dispersion can increase noticeably. Or not. It varies from one rifle to the next, and one type of ammo to the next. Almost certainly a harmonics thingie. The best bet is to get good MV readings, then remove the magneto for the best POI and accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I will start by measuring some premium factory ammo and working up some data on my rifle.

What rifle, what caliber?

Companies like Masterpiece Arms sell a mount that attaches to a picatinny or ARCA rail. The advantage is it doesn't effect the harmonics of the barrel, if that's an issue for you. My buddy has a Labradar and I have a Magnetospeed V3. They're within 5fps of each other.

The only thing I like about the Labradar is you don't have to swap it over to different rifles. What I don't like is you have to mess around with how you position it when shooting rifles with a brake. The back pressure from the brake will cause it not to pick up the shot. The blast from the brake needs to be behind the unit. Kind of a pain in the ass but not a deal breaker.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I will start by measuring some premium factory ammo and working up some data on my rifle.

What rifle, what caliber?

Rifle is a Remington 700 stainless 5R Milspec. 24" barrel, if memory serves.Maybe 22"?
Caliber is 308.

My first try at learning about accurate rifles. I can't vouch for my ability to properly measure groups as accurately as you all do but it prints holes that all touch, at 100 yards with Federal GMM 168 gr.

If I can learn the Way of accuracy and learn ballistics and scope-Fu, I will look at different rifles. This one is better than I can shoot, for now.

Edit: Barrel twist is 1 in 11.25".

Bruce

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RNshooter,

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Rifle is a Remington 700 stainless 5R Milspec.
with Federal GMM 168 gr.

That works.

Your rifle should be pretty happy with SMK 168 and 175 bullets from many ammo manufacturs -- Federal, Black Hills, Fiocchi, Remington, Winchester, Corbon, and others. In some barrels the 168 shoots slightly better than 175, especially inside 400-ish yards. For 500 yards and beyond the 175 is generally better, especially in higher winds and denser air.

Hornady's loads work pretty well on a variety of rifles. HPBT, Amax, ELD-M are all options from 168 to 178 grains.

If you want a lighter bullet the 155 Scenar and the 155 Amax/ELD-M are options.

My 308 does not like Sierra's TMK 168 and 175 loads -- from both Federal and Black Hills. I've heard others say the same thing.

I don't know anything about Federal's new-ish 185 Berger load.

***
After trying way too many factory loads in my 308, I'm slowly narrowing my inventory to FGMM 175, and maybe Hornady 168 AMax. I don't yet have the time with 168 ELD-M bullet to determine if it performs better than the AMax.

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
Companies like Masterpiece Arms sell a mount that attaches to a picatinny or ARCA rail. The advantage is it doesn't effect the harmonics of the barrel, if that's an issue for you. My buddy has a Labradar and I have a Magnetospeed V3. They're within 5fps of each other.

Masterpiece Arms' rail is nice. But that what's put the Magnetospeed V3 at the same cost as the Labradar when I was trying to decide this time last year. Either device is a good choice IMO.