I picked up my M1 Super 90 back in the 1990's. It works well, but I can tell a difference in felt recoil between it and my more recently built/purchased Beretta 1301 Comp. I believe the gas operated shotguns do soften the blow when shooting heavy loads and honestly, I like the ventilated rib on my Beretta more when I'm shooting buckshot. Probably because I shoot a lot of sporting clays these days, and will frequently use an A400 (the "Sporting" version of a 1301 Comp). In any case, I just can't bring myself to get rid of the Benelli.

What kind of muzzle device is mounted on that AR, Chowser?

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
It works well, but I can tell a difference in felt recoil between it and my more recently built/purchased Beretta 1301 Comp. I believe the gas operated shotguns do soften the blow when shooting heavy loads...

There's no doubt about it. Shoot the M1 next to, say, an 11-87P and there will be a noticeable difference (though in the case of the 11-87, milder recoil may be partly attributable to the steel receiver of the Remington), but I'll tell you- I like the recoil impulse of the Benelli. It feels...faster and more natural a shooter than gas-operated shotguns. I get along fine with this hard-kicking thing. I believe the word I'm looking for is sympatico.

Are you taking about that shuffling type feel? I don’t have much experience with semi shotguns, but I have spent a little time on my father’s Winchester Super X. It definitely had that sluggish shuffling feel when it cycles. Ka-chunk. Some of the videos I’ve watched of people cranking off rounds with the M1 in a hurry surprise me how fast they can empty it, so I think I have an idea what you’re talking about.

I’m looking forward to trying mine out. Hopefully I can find some fairly warm ammo for something shy of “bleed me dry” prices tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
What kind of muzzle device is mounted on that AR, Chowser?

It's a short KAK flash can. I did have my old AAC 762SDN6 and suppressor mount on the gun (it's one of two short barrel rifles we have) but when I sent the AAC out for repair, I just stuck the flash can on it. We're returning the surplus M16s back to the gov't and the mix of 16/14.5/10.5 uppers that were cobbled together will get sold off. The original 20" rifles wouldn't fit in our cars so the rangemaster at the time mixed and matched parts. I took over and I tried to order FN ARs but they discontinued the ones I ordered so I switched to Daniel Defense. They should be made next week. I ordered them all as 14.5.

Here is short video of seven shots in a row.

Whoa.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Are you talking about that shuffling type feel?

Gas shotguns have that "shuffling" feel, as you describe it. The recoil impulse is spread out a bit. My main experience with gas-operated shotguns has been the Remington 11-87. Though I was never able to fire an 11-87 fast enough to hang it up, it always felt like my finger could get ahead of the firing cycle. That may not be possible, but it's my impression.

The Benelli? No such sensation. All of this is kind of hard to describe. Chowser's video illustrates just how fast the Benelli cycles.

I'm not a fan of pistol grip stocks on shotguns with the exception of folding stocks. They do not feel natural to me. Traditional long guns line up both hands with your shoulder when the gun is mounted. A pistol grip throws that right out the window. However, there is a benefit to the pistol grip stock on hard-kicking guns; your firing hand is absorbing much of the recoil that would be transmitted to your shoulder with a traditional inline stock.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
However, there is a benefit to the pistol grip stock on hard-kicking guns; your firing hand is absorbing much of the recoil that would be transmitted to your shoulder with a traditional inline stock.

The Mesa Tactical Urbino pistol grip stock, in particular, does a great job of taming the recoil of the M1/1201FP. It has a fantastic Limbsaver buttpad, plus a rubber pad on the rear of the pistol grip, which combines with the additional recoil mitigation from the firing hand on the grip. All together, they make a noticable difference compared to the traditional factory stock.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Though I was never able to fire an 11-87 fast enough to hang it up, it always felt like my finger could get ahead of the firing cycle. That may not be possible, but it's my impression.

I had the same impression of the Super X. The speed at which it cycled seemed like I could outrun it if I tried. I don't recall ever trying to, though.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
All of this is kind of hard to describe.

I think I know what you're talking about, though. It cycles very quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
However, there is a benefit to the pistol grip stock on hard-kicking guns; your firing hand is absorbing much of the recoil that would be transmitted to your shoulder with a traditional inline stock.

Yeah, I had an 870 with a Davis Speedfeed IV on it for some years and noticed a fair amount of recoil reduction with it. I think with the way the Benelli operates, it may be a useful thing to have on it for heavier loads. I've had some serious health problems crop up in the last few years and one of the things I get to enjoy is much reduced muscle mass, so there's a lot less beef in the area that'll be soaking up the recoil. Pistol grip will hopefully help make it less punishing.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
The Mesa Tactical Urbino pistol grip stock, in particular, does a great job of taming the recoil of the M1/1201FP. It has a fantastic Limbsaver buttpad, plus a rubber pad on the rear of the pistol grip, which combines with the additional recoil mitigation from the firing hand on the grip. All together, they make a noticable difference compared to the traditional factory stock.

Besides what you've shared here, all I know of the Urbino is that I have the impression that it's so popular as to be "the" aftermarket stock for the Benelli. It must be that for a reason. I may look into one of these, depending on how comfortable I find it to shoot with the factory stock. I'll see what I can find for ammo today, and hopefully get out to the range sometime soon. I haven't messed with a shotgun in so long, I'm looking forward to it.

Benelli's bump. (not bump fire, but the recoil impulse is like a bump) I like the bump.

They're not terrible fast IMO. At least... they're quite easy to outrun the trigger. This is an ammo wasting video (function testing after some work I did) and all the strings are cut short because I outran the trigger. (M2, not M1)

Oh, you're far faster than I. What's the capacity of that magazine tube?

It was loaded 10+1+1... but I ran out before ever getting that many in a row. I can't remember what I'd replaced or done to it that I was testing it.

Any chance the weight of the longer shell column, or a magazine spring longer than factory might contribute to any lag between shots? If the shell can't get fully onto the lifter in time...

Couldn't really say. It would be any interesting experiment to see for example if you could, or if it would fire the first three of a long stack, as fast as the last/just three. I doubt it would be obvious enough without high speed cameras and what not. The human variable would screw things up no doubt as well.

Technically interesting, but not real practical. The difference between .15 second splits and .12 splits doesn't really mean much since other than goofing around, I'd never have reason to shoot it like that. The only real thing doing that is good for is making them malfunction, which was my goal. If it works doing that, it'll work at normal speed. The one in the video has a 28" barrel, full length tube, lightened bolt. She's easier to make stay put. My "regular' length one gets a bit more excitable if you try that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cas,

Ahh the Benelli Super 90 M1. This is maybe the best close range weapon made. Love mine and certainly can’t add to it he superlatives. So impressive to shoot one against almost anything else in this class. It is virtually 100%. That is rare.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

I'm not a fan of pistol grip stocks on shotguns with the exception of folding stocks. They do not feel natural to me.

I'm with you. I'm one of the loners who has a field stock on the Benelli M4, it just feels much more...I dont know, handy to me. It's funny, most people dont believe it's an M4 because it has a field stock.

I bought my SuperNova with a PG, using the fact that I'd never owned a shctgun with a PG stock as my reasoning/excuse. I used it that way for maybe a year, shot a bunch of matches with it. But it wasn't long before I came to the realization that it was more trouble than it was worth, and made the gun less handy. Swapped it out for a standard stock as soon as I could. Occasionally I will go online shopping for M4's, really just to check another box off on my list, but it's hard to find them with the standard stock.

There's a reason.. that I can't remember now, that the PG stocks can make the M1/M2 less reliable, but it's been too many years to recall the details.

The PG is user quick on a combat sling set up. Quicker to bring into battery. Other than that I agree with other opinions that a straight is more useful.

I am not sure I know the differences between a M1 Super 90 and the M2 but here is a photo of a factory M2 SBS w a Surefire which is a favorite.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/k8DxM7uttGwUGXDs6

PS An idea is to get the Non-NFA M2 tactical model which two local Benelli dealers have in stock, and it is 5+1. Are you guys saying if you add a +2 extension, it requires 922r parts change if all you do is add a msg extension!

https://www.benelliusa.com/sho...tguns#specifications

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tschiemer,

I have a M1 Super 90 chambered in 20 gauge with a 26” barrel. It is a very smooth shooting and reliable gun. That being said, what I would really like to get is a Remington Versa Max V3 Tactical with an 18.5” barrel. I have the original Versa Max Tactical that has a 22” barrel. While it has been completely flawless with everything from light target loads to mixed loads of various lengths and shot sizes, it is a little long for a HD shotgun. I’ve thought of buying a new M2 Super 90 but by the time you get a M1/M2 922r compliant, you are really spending a lot of $$$ for a gun that, at least in my experience, is not any more reliable than a Versa Max that costs substantially less.