and the icing on the cake is a 1700 dollar prce tag!!!

Perhaps it's time for HK to get real on that Texas plant idea that they purportedly had a few years back. The production there may not have the "true" German rollmarks and such, but at least the products won't be so bloody dumbed down.

Dumb, just like their USC-45.

I actually shot one of these today (older one, not a new import). A co-worker has one, and we shot it and my AR out to 200 yards. Honestly, while it was cool to shoot something that unique, I didn't feel like it did anything any better than my AR, in fact it was worse. It's heavy, the ergos are inferior, the mags are goofy, and IMO it wasn't really a better gun in any way.

I get the idea of wanting a broader collection than just ARs. Heck, I love my Mini-14 and will never part with it, even though it's inferior to an AR. I can see wanting one because of its pedigree or its unique design, but as a serious tool I just don't see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
The most recent imports by HK:

SP5L pistol with 16" barrel and 3 lug suppressor mount.

SL8 rifle with thumbhole stock, 10 round magazine, and non-threaded barrel.

Words fail.

SP5L is great for MP5SD conversion.
SL8 is only good for Tom Bostic G36 conversion.

I don't get people complaining about these from HK. Realistically the reason that people buy these (me included) is that it gives you a basis to make something you can't actually buy directly due to the stupid US import situation.
Want a UMP your best starting point is a USC
Want a G36 its easiest to start with an SL8 (though TB has taken some of the pressure off that by making an alternative receiver, but his volumes are very low so an SL8 makes it easier and faster).
The SP5L solves a bunch of issues on various builds especially since a barrel change on an MP5 is a truly annoying project.
I am glad that HK continues to bring these in.
FWIW>

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't get people complaining about these from HK. Realistically the reason that people buy these (me included) is that it gives you a basis to make something you can't actually buy directly due to the stupid US import situation.
Want a UMP your best starting point is a USC
Want a G36 its easiest to start with an SL8 (though TB has taken some of the pressure off that by making an alternative receiver, but his volumes are very low so an SL8 makes it easier and faster).

Nonsense. I don’t buy it. I’ll repeat myself:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
As for the stuff about importation, FN manages to get it done with the SCAR. They arrive with really squirrely features and then they pop them in the Easy Bake Oven stateside and they come out looking like something people would want to buy.

I think the more likely answer is that HK isn’t willing to go the extra mile for the consumer, and HK fans don’t mind this and even make excuses for it. Realistically, if they wanted to sell a civilian G36, it would be on the market, same with the UMP. They don’t. Personally, I think it’s ridiculous, but people pay money for that logo on their gun, and I say this as someone who owned a legit HK91 for years.

quote:

Nonsense. I don’t buy it. I’ll repeat myself

Ok I guess all those guys offering parts and services to convert HK neutered guns to semiauto versions of the actual desirable stuff can just shut up shop and go home due to lack of work. Instead of having (and have had like forever) serious backlogs.

"I think the more likely answer is that HK isn’t willing to go the extra mile for the consumer"

I'm guessing more likely the guys at HK did the calculation on the costs to get around the import ban and setup shop in the US and the likely volumes and returns and decided its not worth it. Neither the G36 or UMP are going to be big volume sellers. Add in their tenuous financial situation and it sure looks pretty rational to me. But of course you would need someone inside HK to really tell you and that's unlikely.

There may be some that pay for the logo, there is for every brand. But equally well there are some who appreciate that HK makes the effort to get some stuff to the US despite its nature that's useful for conversions etc. I would love that Sig bothered to continue to import certain things so I could get parts.

In any case you have your thoughts, I have mine. The market will decide if HK earns money on these guns (and I can almost guarantee that these guns will do well enough to justify HK's effort and investment in bringing them back).

HK has done a fantastic job with the SP5, and to a lesser extent the hard to find SP5K-PDW. But they are imported as pistols and therefore avoid a lot of the complications of importing semi-auto rifles. And the US important rules are just one half of the complications when you take German export rules into account.

Remember that most AK's are imported as single stacks and "sporters" and modified here for standard mags and pistol grips.

Instead of expecting HK to get around the absurd and arbitrary import regs that hurt niche products more than volume products, how about we lobby to get rid of 922r and all the other absurdities?

The idea that sporting means limited capacity and traditional stocks for hunting is silly when you consider that the most prevalent "sporting" use of rifles today is action shooting, not hunting.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

I had someone trade me a SL8 once and I just hated the design.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I would like to see SL7 return to production...

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Dumb, just like their USC-45.

The USC wasn't dumb.

The assault weapon ban that made it have a 10 round mag was dumb.

The import ban that made it have that silly stock was dumb.

The NFA that made it have that out of place looking barrel was dumb.

Is there anything they could do a bit differently, to make it more G36 conversion-friendly, other than the obvious folding hinge? I am not super familiar with the conversion process, but have been looking into it lately, considering TommyBuilt has his new receiver available. I considered the GSG9 US-made kits at first, but it didn't take much research to eliminate them as possibilities. So a G36 parts kit combined with the TG36 seemed the way to go. But, if it could be "all HK", that would be rad, though the price may knock that possibility out. Perhaps the SL8, like others said, is best left alone and enjoyed by those who like it in it's own right.

One thing they could have done is made it set up for double stack mags like the Canadian SL8-4, as well as the European SL8s. Those still used 10 round mags, but there was a tab or something in the receiver that prevented the use of the regular G36 mags. The guns came with the full lugged bolt already, so all you would have to do is remove that block to be able to use 36 mags.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Dumb, just like their USC-45.

The USC wasn't dumb.

The assault weapon ban that made it have a 10 round mag was dumb.

The import ban that made it have that silly stock was dumb.

The NFA that made it have that out of place looking barrel was dumb.

Yes, I know about the awb and the restrictions, but it's still dumb to me. Maybe folks who enjoy converting this and that don't mind, but me, I'm not going to go out of my way to get a brand new factory gun and waste tons more of money converting it.

I would say literally 10% of the posts overall here are somebody either modifying and/or changing a gun they just bought. maybe more. or asking for what to change.
The good part of this is that given today's pricing getting a USC45 and modifying it to make a UMP is likely more cost effective than buying the sole US made UMP equivalent.
I'm not saying that its the most brilliant strategy but its what is available due to the laws we have, and it works.