For those not familiar, this is the design that won the German Army competition to replace the H&K G36 but that contract was canceled after H&K won a lawsuit for patent infringement. There's still a lot of back and forth in the German courts so we'll see how that ends up. Should H&K win a permanent injunction, one would expect exports from Germany to end. Believe the issue lies with the operating system similarities as the guns themselves are different enough from the HK416's they claim to be copying.

Fully ambidexterous magazine release AND bolt release, captured trigger and hammer pins, flared magwells, QD button / lever to swap handguards out and several other small differences. THe parts quality is top-notch...nicer than US-market H&K MR223's I've handled. (I also own two German-market MR223's which are obviously better quality than the US guns)

Imported by B&T USA as the "BT-15", these guns are a short-stroke piston design with a QD hand-guard. Very nicely made firearms. These are 15x1RH threaded barrels (normal German pattern) so it will take a bit to get suppressor mounts available for them.

For those that don't know, Haenel has a long history of German arms production (i.e. the StG44 Sturmgewehr) though they're owned by an entity in the UAE these days.







I also have one of the earlier KeyMod handguard imports...apparently the Geramns like KeyMod more than M-LOK at this point. Who knew?



I should note; I added the B5 grips as the B&T grips are flat and skinny in shape and while they are aesthetically nice, they don't feel good in hand (smaller than my actual B&T guns)

A good overview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQkYgDg30M8

I'd like one of these but I am concerned about it being orphaned with respect to spare parts. B&T imported some and the current dealer price is around $3000, but I heard they will not continue to import them, and they are not shown on the B&T website.

Too bad the Federal Register published today shows that ATF will be taking action on braces, using the 4999 form they proposed last year.

I would love one, but my budget is like 50 bucks.

They look to be a near-perfect progression of the ar15 pattern rifle.

Got a link to the FR post? I just searched and didn't see anything. If the braces go away, these will get stamps. Sucks, but, drop in the bucket to pay for tax stamps compared to the cost.

These are very well built...I can't imagine what consumables you might need and B&T has generally sucked for support in any case so no loss there. They're not the only avenue to get parts through from .eu

If these are indeed a copy of the 416, and use the 416 G36-derived gas system, they are no doubt fine rifles. Also, if that's the case, I would have sued them too, if I was HK. That gas system is certainly unique, and Haenel could not pass it off as their own. The heart of a gun is the operating system; aside from that, any AR-derivative is more-or-less the same.

It's not a direct copy in the same way that the Sig 516 is not. They're all Armalite AR18 derivatives so maybe H&K could sue Brownells for their BRN180 offerings, too.

The way the piston manages exhaust is the unique aspect of the operating system. If that is still covered by a patent, then I think HK's actions are justified. The 516 is a better example of a run-of-the-mill short-stroke piston. I am not familiar with enough different models to have an intricate discussion about conventional short-stroke vs tappet; I need to bone up on that. I would guess a short-stroke is defined as a system that has the piston and op-rod as one piece, where a tappet has more separate segments smacking each other?

The AR180 system has separate parts to the rod. Here's a pic of the HK vs. Haenel operating systems (from a user on arfcom)

I'll take some pics of the Sig 516, pre-ban AR180 and 180B as well to compare.

Quick search of news coverage from Germany, it appears the crux of the suit for infringement is NOT the gas operation but rather the drain holes for water i.e. "OTB" functions or "over the beach".

OTB is a weird one to hinge on...the system requires modifications to several parts of the gun (barrel extension, bolt, buffer tube, etc) and specific ammunition to operate properly.

I made specific mention of the piston's management of exhaust because that is the critical difference between the G36-derived system and other short-stroke systems. Take those systems apart into their smaller pieces, and then compare them to each other, and then to the 516 and AR180.

That is weird, and seems more like HK is grasping at straws. So, perhaps the G36 piston design is no longer protected; other manufacturers would do well to utilize it. Actually, I think the VHS does.

quote:

For those that don't know, Haenel has a long history of German arms production (i.e. the StG44 Sturmgewehr) though they're owned by an entity in the UAE these days.

The same people who wound up with Caracal?

Yes.

quote:

Germany’s Defense Ministry said in a statement Tuesday that C.G. Haenel GmbH, based in the central German town of Suhl, came out top in the tender, though the 250 million-euro ($300 million) contract deal is subject to legal challenges.

Haenel is owned by Abu Dhabi-based Caracal International, which in turn is part of the United Arab Emirates state conglomerate EDGE Group.

Founded in 1840, Haenel was one of many German arms manufacturers to benefit from the country’s remilitarization under the Nazis. Toward the end of World War II it developed the StG 44 assault rifle, considered a major influence for the AK-47.

Hell, sounds like Germany would do well to stick with HK anyway, considering Haenel is owned by a foreign corporation.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Hell, sounds like Germany would do well to stick with HK anyway, considering Haenel is owned by a foreign corporation.

Who do you think has owned H&K over the years? Foreign corporations...everything from BAE to private equity firms (not all have been based in Germany).

Same way we buy military weapons from Beretta (Italian), FN (Belgian), H&K (German), Rheinmetal (German), Austal (Australian), etc.

I was not aware that HK is not owned by a German entity. That's a bummer.

It is (for now) back to being German-owned. It wasn't for many, many years (it was owned by BAE, a British firm).

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Got a link to the FR post? I just searched and didn't see anything. If the braces go away, these will get stamps. Sucks, but, drop in the bucket to pay for tax stamps compared to the cost.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns....e-final-regulations/

Basically says they are moving forward with the reclassification of what makes a "receiver" as well as the brace rule with the 4999 form that went up for comment last year. The final rule may be different than what was floated last year, but given the current administration's hostility to guns along with the cease & desist & confiscation of Rare Breed forced reset triggers without any finding in court that they are "machine guns" I am not optimistic that it will be any better/different.

I tried to find the ATF rule in the FR that TTAG posted without luck, but it doesn't have a good search function. And TTAG doesn't even seem to have the original post cited above up anymore??