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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
Hey all- I have decided to do a real deep cleaning of my training rifle. Background: It's a Del-Ton 1 in 9 twist, not chrome-lined, 16" pencil barrel. I estimate it has 3000 rounds through it between me and some buddies using it for 2 and 4 day classes over the past several years. It has never, until now, had anything other than a bore snake passed through the barrel. I have been using Hoppes #9 bore cleaner with patches on a Tipton jag as well as a Tipton bronze brush. For some variety, I have also been trying Eezox on both, as well. As expected, the early going was filty black stuff. A couple of wet patches, a couple of dry, and a few passes with a wet brush about every 30th patch. The patches now just have a few light streaks of grey on them but they never show clean. I probably have soiled 200 patches, so far. My questions: Is this normal and I am just doing pennance for neglecting my bore? Should I change tools or chemicals? Also: Is there an inexpensive bore scope that would help me assess my rifling? Maybe an Android compatible one? Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | ||
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semi-reformed sailor |
Stop wasting your Time.... It’s clean enough... If you need it super clean (cause your ocd or something) run some hot water thru it Use some dawn on a brush and swap it 100 times, Flush it out and then oil it. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
Additional information: It is a 5.56. It has been fed 5.56 and 223 brass cased ammo, mostly Federal. No Russian steel cased at all. Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
For one rifle barrel? Seriously? "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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Member |
Regarding an inexpensive bore scope - I bought this one as a gift for a friend: https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and he uses it with his I-Phone. I mentioned it to the owner of my LGS and he ordered one and likes it. Was surprised he didn't already have one, and a more costly one at that, but we've gone without them for years so... I have one but mine is still in the box. I don't have a smart phone and need to hook up to the computer. Not a big deal, just too lazy to do it yet. For only $50 I figured why not. Shoot, one could spend that, or more, on just a date to the movies. | |||
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Member |
The old myth of run patches until they come out clean is exactly a myth. Even when I shoot bleck powder loads in a 45/70 I get it clean with about 6 patches. Outside of precision rifles, a cursory cleaning of the bore in 2 minutes or less will render a combat type rifle clean enough. | |||
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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
What can I say? I am stubborn and ignorant. I was waiting for the patches to come out clean. Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | |||
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"Member" |
If you rub white cloth on any oily metal, it's going to turn gray no matter how clean it is. _____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911. | |||
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Yeah, that M14 video guy... |
It depends on the quality of the barrel, and the cleaner used. One with lots of tooling marks will collect a lot of carbon and copper. I use Bore Tech cleaners. Bore Tech Eliminator will clean most carbon and copper. I also have the Bore Tech copper and carbon cleaners. They work better than anything else I've used. I run a patch and a jag. Tony. Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-07 FFL www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction). e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com | |||
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Member |
Yep, Boretech Carbon remover. Follow the directions! Patch, brush, soak, patch.... Hoppes is worthless! | |||
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Music's over turn out the lights |
When I shot a lot of benchrest 22lr I used Butch's Bore Shine, if that smell doesn't knock out the carbon and lead I don't know what will David W. Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles | |||
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Member |
That's a lot of ammo down the tube without cleaning. Probably cheap FMJ ammo, which tends to be really bad for fouling. I doubt that Hoppes or Eezox have been very effective on cutting the carbon and copper fouling. Boretech products will work better. Your barrel is probably clean enough to continue shooting. Although there could be a noticeable carbon/copper ring in the throat. In all honesty, it's just a Del-Ton, which means it will never be a precision barrel. Consistent, light cleaning is better. You should search the web for barrel maintenance comments from Frank Green, of Bartlein Barrels. | |||
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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
It's not an expensive barrel but it has been tested hard enough that I would bet my life on it, now. I may try the Sweets 7.62 that I just picked up, later. I won't let anything get that nasty again. Unless it's a Glock Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | |||
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Yeah, that M14 video guy... |
The Bore-Tech copper remover works WAY better than Sweet's 762 and it's non-toxic and won't damage your barrel if you leave it in overnight. I used to only use Sweet's and after trying Bore-Tech, I won't go back. Tony. Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-07 FFL www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction). e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com | |||
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Hop head |
pick your bore cleaner of choice, and get a bottle or can of Kroil, wet a patch, get the bore really wet, and walk away (Be careful with sweets type cleaners, ) better yet, set the muzzle in a small can or bottle, (think tuna can) lean it against a cabinet or similar were it will not get knocked over, pour or spray said cleaner (or Kroil) in the barrel, like soaking wet, you will see some drip out in the can give it an hour or 2, then give it another spritz or so , and wait, next day, scrub with a brush, 10 or 100 strokes, what ever makes you feel go, and then patches, betting you won't use more than 5-6 , I've used probably 15 different cleaners (picked up in the various estates I have bought) and all work somewhat well, kroil does a great job if you let it soak, and foaming cleaners do well also, but look a bit like snot the next day, https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/ | |||
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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
I returned the Sweets and ordered the Bore-Tech copper remover. I may try the Kroil on a milsurp Mauser before this AR. Thanks for all the information, everyone! Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | |||
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You're going to feel a little pressure... |
I tried the Bore Tech copper solvent on the milsurp Mauser. The patches come out so blue that I can hardly believe it! I will let the solvent sit in the barrel for a while and see what comes out tomorrow. Good stuff and it doesn't stink! Bruce "The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams “It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken | |||
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No ethanol! |
As mentioned Kroil (or a mix of Hoppes and Kroil) helps quite a bit in lifting out crud. If you get the initial fouling and burnt powder out, yes 2nd or third patches will begin to lighten. If you want additional copper cleaning give the solvents TIME to work. Not more patches, more hours. Do NOT do this with aggressive ammonia cleaners like Sweets. Hoppes you can leave in for a day, and then bronze brush and clean that out. You may only need to do that twice. You'll get more copper out like that in 2-3 cycles than 10 times in a row. ------------------ The plural of anecdote is not data. -Frank Kotsonis | |||
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Member |
For heavily fouled barrels try a patch with some Kroil oil and JB Bore paste. Run it back and forth in the bore about 10 times. Clean with Kroil oil. You might have to do this a few times to clean out the carbon and copper. _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
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