quote:

Originally posted by 4sigman:
For OPTICS, the POI will be consistent.

Consistent but not precise. First I'm no sniper or LEO, and when in the military never was using a rifle with on optic to take someone out. I do hunt with a rifle with optics and a bow.

Given the Ops scenario I would want precise.

Up until a couple months ago I was in the camp that if the rifle was zeroed with optics it's zeroed. In the past I would zero my rifles and when my daughters would hunt I would give them one of my rifles put them in a stand a they hunted. killed several deer a piece. Got into Bow hunting for several years and that's all I did. Girls with rifles me with Bow. I can tell you with out a doubt with bow hunting that anchor points head position and torque will effect POI. No question. Never would have thought that about a rifle with an optic.

Couple months ago I bought a new rifle with scope. I also bought one of those laser bore sight that was basically a .270 cartridge with a laser to facilitate me zeroing the rifle and getting it on paper when I actually fire it. I did the laser sight in in my back yard at 25 yards. What I found was by changing my head position or cheek weld caused the cross/X on optics to laser dot to move from the cross of the optics/ cross on paper plate at 25 yards by at about an inch on paper plate. I originally thought maybe the laser bore sight was moving but bolt was closed on it and the only thing moving was my head. That lead me to the conclusion that my daughters need to zero there hunting rifles now. Given that our head position, cheek shape/weld, and how we each address the optics will be different.

In short consistent yes, precise no. If I was in a position to have to pull the trigger in a hostage situation I want precise. Hray

quote:

Originally posted by hray:

Couple months ago I bought a new rifle with scope.
I also bought one of those laser bore sight that was basically a .270 cartridge with a laser to facilitate me zeroing the rifle and getting it on paper when I actually fire it.
I did the laser sight in in my back yard at 25 yards.

What I found was by changing my head position or cheek weld caused the cross/X on optics to laser dot to move from the cross of the optics/ cross on paper plate at 25 yards by at about an inch on paper plate.

Wouldn't having the incorrect eye relief point make this occur?

I know anytime I look through a scope, zeroing or shooting I have to be precise on my eye relief point.
There is a small area where you can deviate a little bit, that I have found to be the place where I know I am aligning my eyes correctly or at least that is my observation of the facts.
Impact tends to be consistent and arrive at the destination as expected.

yes but I'm no pro. It was stated, I think from one Pro shooter to the next probably all is good. Even though I explained this to my daughters I have no idea the way they address the scope. Maybe I'm wrong and zeroed is zeroed and maybe when I observed this shift I was to close to the scope

Way back to page 1 of this thread.....

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
When competent shooters get behind rifles that were correctly zeroed, the zero doesn't change. POI doesn't change. With minor exceptions of sling pressure or pressure on the supporting device, POI doesn't change when shooting positions change -- for competent shooters. The following link is from a few years ago, when Snipershide did on-line training with Jacob Bynum -- who runs Rifles Only. People who don't shoot at Jacob's level won't agree with the results. People who shoot near Jacob's level do agree. It's all about the fundamentals.
Online training - rifle shooting positions

At 3 minutes in this video, Jacob shows the POI error from his eye not being in the centerline of the scope, and having the wrong parallax setting. That's a 3" Shoot-N-C paster, which means his POI shift was around 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 100 yards. And that's with a guy who really knows how to shoot -- his fundamentals are impeccable. Put a lesser shooter in the same scenario -- I've seen POI shifts that are noticeably greater than Jacob's.

Cool Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by hray:
What I found was by changing my head position or cheek weld caused the cross/X on optics to laser dot to move from the cross of the optics/ cross on paper plate at 25 yards by at about an inch on paper plate.

Although I’m in the camp of “Yes, it can make a difference for precision shooting, if not ‘minute of man’ at 100 yards that satisfies many shooters,” I would refer to what fritz mentioned about parallax setting.

Unless your scope had the capability of adjusting the parallax, it would have been fixed, and for common hunting scopes that’s usually 100 or 150 yards. At a very short distance like 25 yards, any movement of the shooter’s eye from the exact center of the scope will result in an apparent shift of the reticle on the target, just as you describe. (Assuming, of course, that I understand you correctly.) The closer the zeroing distance is to the fixed parallax setting, the less of a problem off center viewing will be, but it may not disappear entirely unless they match.

The obvious rejoinder to that is, “Well, just make sure you’re looking through the center of the scope, and that won’t be a problem,” but sometimes it’s not that simple. Plus something else to keep in mind is that many people who weigh in on discussions like this may have experience with only one type of sight, and mistakenly assume that their sight is just like everyone else’s.

Thanks Sigfreund, and yes my parallax is fixed at 100 yds. Makes sense. And yes you understood correctly. Hray