Auto-Ordnance Releases "Vengeance" Custom WWII M1 Carbine
Posted by Monica Arnold on Aug 29th 2018

Greeley, PA - Auto-Ordnance, maker of the famous "Tommy Gun" and other classic firearms throughout history, is proud to offer the "Vengeance" Custom WWII M1 Carbine.

Kahr Firearms Group continues the ongoing series of WWII commemorative firearms with the custom engraved “Vengeance” Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine. This model features wood furniture engraved with images recalling December 7th, 1941, the “Day of Infamy” when Pearl Harbor was attacked by the naval and air forces of Imperial Japan. The rear stock features highly detailed depictions of the attack on Pearl Harbor that began the long war for the United States. On the opposite side is depicted the B-29 Superfortress Enola Gay, symbolizing the end of the war when the United States forced the surrender of the Imperial Japanese government. Engraved on the front handguard is a battle damaged American flag.

The Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine is a faithful reproduction of military models, with all steel components, Parkerized finish and walnut stocks. The “Vengeance” rifle gives shooters an opportunity to own a new firearm that is highly accurate, utterly reliable and custom engraved to commemorate the conflict enshrining the M1’s role as a vital part of American Military History.

The "Vengeance" M1 rifle is chambered in .30 caliber and features a custom engraved walnut stock and handguard. It comes shipped with a 15-round magazine. The model number is AOM130C1 and it has an MSRP of $1,391. Contact your local firearms dealer to purchase.

Kahr Firearms Group and Outlaw Ordnance have partnered together on the design concept and promotion of this product, and several other custom firearm projects. Outlaw Ordnance, based out of West Monroe, Louisiana, has seen substantial growth in the last few years. They are changing the firearm industry with custom designs and innovations.

https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup....99&mc_eid=83104e3641

Nice, but how are the rifles to shoot?

Meh. I’m usually not much into commemorative guns, but the stock looks way too busy on this one. Hard pass.

Yikes

Pick a theme. It kind of reminds me of when Homer Simpson got to design a car.

heavy 8+ lbs.

Just for clarity, Auto-Ordnance is just like Springfield Armory. As in, not actually the original company, nor in any way associated with it.

Trust Auto-Ordnance to make something stupid out of something great. If they spent as much attention to detail on how their guns work as opposed to how they look, they might grab some market share.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Just for clarity, Auto-Ordnance is just like Springfield Armory. As in, not actually the original company, nor in any way associated with it.

Right. Numrich, and later Kahr, just bought the rights to the Auto-Ordnance name.

Similarly, the new Inland Manufacturing company, which also makes modern commercial M1 Carbine copies, has no relation to the original Inland Division of General Motors (the primary maker of USGI M1 Carbines), other than the rights to the name.

Likewise, the new commercial Rock-Ola M1 Carbines are unrelated to the original Rock-Ola jukebox company who made USGI M1 Carbines during WW2. James River Armory just bought the rights to the name.

quote:

Originally posted by K.O.A.M.:
If they spent as much attention to detail on how their guns work as opposed to how they look, they might grab some market share.

Bingo. Like most commercial M1 Carbines, AOs are hit or miss in quality/reliability, and have some proprietary parts that are not interchangeable with USGI parts.

Aw man, I feel bad for it.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
heavy 8+ lbs.

Kahr's website has it listed as 5.4 lbs, which is about right for a M1 Carbine.

https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup....ish-w-15rd-magazine/

I think he's looking at the Thompson, which means he's suffering from the "not reading" epidemic we seem to be having.

I'm an M1 Carbine lover, but this buying of brands has long bothered me, especially when the product is haphazard.

So what is a reliable for a M1 Carbine? For those who wish one? Cuz I admit, 1351 seems sorta... cheap?

Not cheap at all.

You can get a USGI M1 Carbine for well under $1351. Figure $800-$1000 for a good condition former CMP carbine from a more common manufacturer like Inland. It will most likely be more reliable than the AO commercial copy, and parts will be more readily available if needed.

Plus, all the history attached to it, which you don't get with a modern copy.

Or, for ~$1200-$1400, you could get a great condition collectible USGI M1 Carbine, from one of the more rare manufacturers.

That thing is ugly. And from what I've heard of the AO carbines reliability, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.

Rogue, I consider you an authority on the subject...why do you think it is that none of these modern companies that are selling carbines under a purchased brand can seem to make one run? 70 years ago, in mass produced wartime conditions, companies churned out thousands of the things that seemed to work fine (and had to-spec parts that could interchange with guns produced by other manufacturers) . A lot of these companies didn't even specialize in gun manufacturing before the war. Yet today, actual gun companies can't seem to turn out an M1 carbine that works.

AO is owned by Kahr Arms. Kahr Arms is owned by Kook Jin Moon, son of Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon. I have zero desire to give money to a religious cult. Pass.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
That thing is ugly. And from what I've heard of the AO carbines reliability, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.

Rogue, I consider you an authority on the subject...why do you think it is that none of these modern companies that are selling carbines under a purchased brand can seem to make one run? 70 years ago, in mass produced wartime conditions, companies churned out thousands of the things that seemed to work fine (and had to-spec parts that could interchange with guns produced by other manufacturers) . A lot of these companies didn't even specialize in gun manufacturing before the war. Yet today, actual gun companies can't seem to turn out an M1 carbine that works.

no one makes them like the contractors for .mil did,

cast, mim, stamped parts, etc etc,

however, as far as Kahr, I have sold maybe a double handful of them, and only had to send one in for repair, (the plate on the bottom of the paratrooper grip where a screw holds the stock stripped,)
it was returned quickly

however I know due to surfing the net, that there are some problems out there


as far as the thompson, I have sold several dozen in the past couple years, not returned a one,

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
That thing is ugly. And from what I've heard of the AO carbines reliability, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.

Rogue, I consider you an authority on the subject...why do you think it is that none of these modern companies that are selling carbines under a purchased brand can seem to make one run? 70 years ago, in mass produced wartime conditions, companies churned out thousands of the things that seemed to work fine (and had to-spec parts that could interchange with guns produced by other manufacturers) . A lot of these companies didn't even specialize in gun manufacturing before the war. Yet today, actual gun companies can't seem to turn out an M1 carbine that works.

no one makes them like the contractors for .mil did,

cast, mim, stamped parts, etc etc,

Pretty much this.

Producing them to the original specs is expensive, and requires specialized skills and tooling.

Keep in mind that a modern gun maker isn't producing carbines on the scale of even the smallest WW2 manufacturer. Huge-scale production allows you to offset the cost of some of the specialized tooling and skilled labor. Modern M1 Carbines simply aren't in very high demand. And a modern carbine produced to true WW2-spec and quality would have to be priced fairly high, so there would be even less demand. It'd be a niche of an already niche market.

The postwar commercial manufacturers have all tried various ways to simplify the design and/or simplify production, to make them cheaper, easier, and faster to produce, and therefore more reasonably priced with higher profit margins. Cutting these corners has reduced reliability, and introduced proprietary parts.

Interestingly, even some of the original WW2-era manufacturers struggled to produce carbines that were up to spec. Some of them gave up and their production contracts were transferred to a different manufacturer, as with Irwin Pedersen. Others came up with innovative alternate methods to overcome the challenges they had encountered, such as Winchester, Quality Hardware, and Rock-Ola using spring tubes to help avoid their problems with being able to successfully drill the long, straight, deep hole in the receiver for the recoil spring.

I'm really bummed that 30 years ago I didn't buy one when my buddy did. I'm even more bummed that he won't shoot it and won't sell it to me...

Is there something inherently complicated about the M1 that prevents someone from building a decent one at a decent price?

We have small machine shops custom milling really nice AR's. They are fairly priced and make nice guns. They aren't bargain basement guns but a lot of shops seem to be able to do it. I don't care if it is stamped steel or any other material as long as it is true to form.

I would even be ok with a polymer stock as long as the receiver etc met milspec standards.

I think the M1 is a neat gun and the ones I've shot were very soft shooting. Good truck gun and a good carbine for smaller framed shooters.

I'm probably missing something, Mark

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
That thing is ugly. And from what I've heard of the AO carbines reliability, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.

Rogue, I consider you an authority on the subject...why do you think it is that none of these modern companies that are selling carbines under a purchased brand can seem to make one run? 70 years ago, in mass produced wartime conditions, companies churned out thousands of the things that seemed to work fine (and had to-spec parts that could interchange with guns produced by other manufacturers) . A lot of these companies didn't even specialize in gun manufacturing before the war. Yet today, actual gun companies can't seem to turn out an M1 carbine that works.

no one makes them like the contractors for .mil did,

cast, mim, stamped parts, etc etc,

Pretty much this.

Producing them to the original specs is expensive, and requires specialized skills and tooling.

Keep in mind that a modern gun maker isn't producing carbines on the scale of even the smallest WW2 manufacturer. Huge-scale production allows you to offset the cost of some of the specialized tooling and skilled labor. Modern M1 Carbines simply aren't in very high demand. And a modern carbine produced to true WW2-spec and quality would have to be priced fairly high, so there would be even less demand. It'd be a niche of an already niche market.

The postwar commercial manufacturers have all tried various ways to simplify the design and/or simplify production, to make them cheaper, easier, and faster to produce, and therefore more reasonably priced with higher profit margins. Cutting these corners has reduced reliability, and introduced proprietary parts.

Interestingly, even some of the original WW2-era manufacturers struggled to produce carbines that were up to spec. Some of them gave up and their production contracts were transferred to a different manufacturer, as with Irwin Pedersen. Others came up with innovative alternate methods to overcome the challenges they had encountered, such as Winchester, Quality Hardware, and Rock-Ola using spring tubes to help avoid their problems with being able to successfully drill the long, straight, deep hole in the receiver for the recoil spring.

univeral and plainfield made the commercial copies by using as many GI parts as they could buy on the surplus market, or from the replacement parts (big business, since the Carbine was still in use) manufacturers,
and selling to those that wanted a version of what they had in the service, (and once the parts started drying up, they modified the internals to make it cheaper to produce, and quaility/reliability suffered)


once the Carbine use dried up, the demand went away and the marked was flooded with imports and surplus,

for someone looking for a truck gun, you can still find deals on orginals that are mixmasters or not 'collector grade',