Assuming both are in 9mm, and both have 5.5 to 7.5” barrels, and both have SB braces.....

Which world you get, and why? Pros and cons of each? I realize pricing is different, but for now let’s not let that be a determine factor! I have experience with the CZ, but none with the Banshee.

The CMMG Banshee has much less recoil. I have two friends who own one of each. Also the Banshee AR15 platform is easier to work with as far as ergonomics and parts.

Have both and agree with the above. The reduced recoil and ability to use AR aftermarket (triggers, stocks, grips, etc.) makes the CMMG a winner for me. Another plus is that the CMMG is US made, so you don’t have to worry about 922r parts if you want to SBR.

The AR is an AR. There are a lot of obvious advantages like parts availability and selection, familiarity and that the AR is simply a great platform. The CMMG taking Glock mags is a huge plus to many people as well.

But the AR is also an AR. If you love them great, but while the my 9mm AR is my favorite AR, it’s just another AR to me.

My scorpion is more fun, IMO. And every bit as practical for HD if one wants. There is a decent parts selection though availability on some can be an issue. Another downside is that many of the stock parts could be better, which is why many people swap out several of the stock parts like the grip, mag release and especially the safety. IMO at a minimum you will want to plan on a new safety and mag release. I also hated the original grip and need to change out the charging handle too.

Personally, if I could only keep one it would be the CZ. Though to be fair I don’t have the CMMG, but i can’t imagine it is that much different.

My stamped AR, CZ a stamped shockwave just for viewing pleasure.

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pale Horse,

I like my CMMG (granted, mine's a homebuilt using their barrel and BCG, not an official "Banshee"). I've not owned or shot a Scorpion, but I have owned other straight blowback carbines, and I much prefer the radially-delayed system of the CMMG.

Comparing the CMMG RDB system to a 9mm blowback AR is an apples to oranges comparison. The recoil of the CMMG is less than that for a blowback 9mm AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Comparing the CMMG RDB system to a 9mm blowback AR is an apples to oranges comparison. The recoil of the CMMG is less than that for a blowback 9mm AR.

True, but you’ll note that I didn’t speak at all about recoil. I have fired the Banshee and the recoil is very nice but it’s still an AR in my eyes.

And I have also never shot my CZ and been bothered in the slightest by the recoil. It may be worse than the CMMG but it’s far from a problem. To me the reduced recoil isn’t a major factor.

Is the ability of the CZ allowing a shooter to do the "HK slap" a valid reason?

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
Is the ability of the CZ allowing a shooter to do the "HK slap" a valid reason?

It is. So much more fun than pulling a charging handle.

I have ARs, not a Banshee, but I cannot image it is more fun than the CZ. The CZ is so accurate it is boring, so easy to shot well.

I wish I could comment with direct experience on the Banshee, but I am now at 5 months wait on a 10mm, ordered in mid-Dec.

I built a 9mm AR SBR with Palmetto components,and a second one as a pistol in the past few years. All fun. I did look closely at the Scorpion a few years ago as well, but went the cheaper route on the 9mm ones.

Looking forward to getting that CMMG soon, I hope.

The Scorpion is certainly the more proven platform, and its simple blowback operation is reliable although the heavy bolt causes it to jump around a bit, more so than "recoil" in the sense of pushing back on you.

Right now mine has a Timney trigger (truly a must have), Apex grip, Apex short safety levers, Gear Head works mag release and factory folding arm with a Tailhook Mod1c. It's like a Glock. You can put any ammo through it. It's from Eastern Europe so steel case ammo should be fine. Magpul 35 round mags are inexpensive and hold more rounds than most other semi-subguns.

I also have an MPX-K, that cost twice as much, an SP5 that cost 3x as much, and a Banshee MK17 that cost about as much as the MPX-K.

The disadvantage of AR-9's is they still need a buffer tube to function which makes the OAL longer and makes folding stocks really complicated (Law adapter). If the goal is to be compact, then a Scorpion K with a folding brace beats the Banshee.

I got my Banshee solely because I keep an M17 and another P320 loaded for HD. The Banshee shares mags and the 21 round mags are sufficient. Since the M17/M18 are going to be in the military for the next couple decades at least, mags will be common and plentiful, and sooner or later there will be reliable (maybe factory) 30 rounders. Someone here posted they had some reliability issues with MK17's, so I have to break mine in once I decide on an optic. Hopefully mine it's OK, but if not it will be fixed by CMMG. I do like the ability to take standard AR triggers, safeties, grips, charging handles, and other parts. I like how the magwell leans back and provides more room for my support hand, and a full grip on the Handguard, which also has a nice little built-in handstop. And the radial delayed blowback operation is both clever and simple. I have some reservations about long term reliability of the bolt, but time will tell. If I used Glocks I would be OK with a Glock mag version.

I would not buy a straight blowback AR-9 because it has the disadvantages of OAL and a heavy bolt. And I have all actions covered: blowback, piston, roller delayed, and radial delayed covered. I don't have a hydro-pneumatic damped blowback (B&T APC) though...

Short answer: Get both, and then get more.

Oh and the Grand Power String SPA3 with the telescoping Tailhook looks REALLY good for the money. Weak point is magazines which have been updated with steel feed lips. I'm going to watch this one...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

I practically have them all in the genre of these 9mm "sub" like guns. of the two you mention (not B&T, HK, MPX, etc.) The CZ wins on price and most everything else goes to the CMMG. But at a practical level the win on price is probably way more than the gains of the CMMG in function.
Things I like about CMMG are that you can have lowers in multiple mag flavors (SIG, COLT, GLock that I use and probably some others). The aftermarket for triggers, stocks, braces and the rest of things is incredibly diverse in the AR market.
The CZ has a decent aftermarket but its small in many critical areas and truly sucks in some areas for example triggers. Sure the Timney that lefty sig mentions is nice but its being redesigned as we speak to deal with issues and its way too light for most uses. And its one of a very small number of drop in CZ triggers. I can name dozens and dozens and dozens of AR triggers that will work on the CMMG. Same for almost any other part. Not that the CZ doesn't have good choices that are better than the factory its that you have way less of them.
In this market my personal favorite is the B&T APC9 followed by the SP5. But that's just my priorities and you can have a lot of CZ's for the price of one of those.

So I have an MPX with 8-inch barrel and a CMMG in 5.7. I have shot the CZ quite a bit that a buddy owns. Each platform has its pro’s/cons. The MPX is heavier and more expensive. It brings smooth, soft shooting and AR like adaptability. The CMMG is pure AR, all the flexibility it has and it is TINY and very very light. The CZ IS quality, lighter and has some configurability to it but is not an AR platform. For me it is a bit more awkward on grip and shouldering and a bit more recoil - but in this class that means almost nothing. Least refined of the 3 IMHO, but still a really good platform.

I like all 3. The CMMG is so damn familiar, so tiny and light hard not to enjoy it. The MPX is a military weapon, and in my bedside safe. I have enjoyed the CZ but for me just a bit awkward in comparison - have enough toys and won’t be adding that one.

Honestly cannot go wrong with any choice.

This has nothing to do with the original question, but exactly why would one consider the MPX a military weapon and not the CZ. I can't name any countries issuing the MPX (but I'm sure some small buys exist even in the US) but I can name some that have the CZ. just curious.
I think in terms of reliability the CZ probably has an ultimate advantage. But the wording kind of bugged me.

Extractor on my Banshee upper broke on mag 3. They sent me a new extractor. I haven’t bothered to fix it yet. That was January. I ordered it in September. I’m still waiting for my Banshee lower I ordered in September. I’ll get around to fixing the upper then and then getting rid of it. This long wait time has soured me on it and I’m back to my MPX.

I have a 5” 9mm CMMG Banshee upper with 1k rounds on a Glock compatible CMMG lower. I’ve also fired another 1k rounds on a SBR AR15 lower with ARC mags. So no issues to report after 2k rounds. I had a MPX and sold it in favor of the CMMG - I was having accuracy issues with the MPX. My buddy owns a CZ Scorpion which I’ve shot many times. The CZ is a great pistol (I have many CZ firearms) but I prefer the AR platform for its flexibility/modularity. The CMMG RDB is almost as smooth as the MPX but better than the Scorpion IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
My stamped AR, CZ a stamped shockwave just for viewing pleasure.

Thread drift, but how do you like that collapsible stock Pale Horse? I have the factory folder on my SBR'd Scorpion, but the Manticore and Safety Harbor collapsible stocks have been something I've considered.

I have an MPX and B&T GHM9. The B&T is getting sold and at some point I'll be picking up a CMMG. Given all the options in this category I would not go with a straight blowback design. Easily the CMMG over the CZ based on radially delayed blowback and AR pattern.

NFA Review channel has a nice video of a CMMG upper used with an M16 lower and CMMG ARC magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by bryanZ06:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
My stamped AR, CZ a stamped shockwave just for viewing pleasure.

Thread drift, but how do you like that collapsible stock Pale Horse? I have the factory folder on my SBR'd Scorpion, but the Manticore and Safety Harbor collapsible stocks have been something I've considered.

I do like it. My friend has almost the same setup with the folding stock and I actually probably like shooting his just a bit more, but I like the functionality of the collapsible stock way more.

My only disappointment is that it didn’t fit into the Manticore Arms mount that came with the Scorpion very well. It fit, but I really had to force it. I had to take a file to the mount to get the stock to move smoothly. You may notice some scratches on my stock and the poor fit is why.

Also note that the arm sits very close to the right side of the frame so any safety they flips up will not work. I had an Apex safety and had to change it to the AK style safety. I wasn’t a massive fan of the Apex anyway so no real loss. Though I did keep the Apex for the left side. It fits fine there.

Even after that it’s still worth it IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
Extractor on my Banshee upper broke on mag 3. They sent me a new extractor. I haven’t bothered to fix it yet. That was January. I ordered it in September. I’m still waiting for my Banshee lower I ordered in September. I’ll get around to fixing the upper then and then getting rid of it. This long wait time has soured me on it and I’m back to my MPX.

Hey Chowser… not sure if you recognize that AR-9 upper in my picture but you should Thanks man it’s a blast.