Don’t look at the Langdon Tactical versions. Must…resist.

I have found over the years that coming to Sig Forum And listening to its members is NOT the place you want to go to if you want to save money!

Don’t get me wrong, I have no regrets…
Just a little less money.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
I have found over the years that coming to Sig Forum And listening to its members is NOT the place you want to go to if you want to save money!

Don’t get me wrong, I have no regrets…
Just a little less money.

I have a Gen 2 1301 (not the newest Mod 2), and have had one of those from Bereli in my cart for a week. Trying not to hit "checkout".....

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
I have found over the years that coming to Sig Forum And listening to its members is NOT the place you want to go to if you want to save money!

Don’t get me wrong, I have no regrets…
Just a little less money.

I have a Gen 2 1301 (not the newest Mod 2), and have had one of those from Bereli in my cart for a week. Trying not to hit "checkout".....

What are you waiting for?!?!
Happiness is just a mouse click away!

IMHO, there’s room for both pumps and semis. I’ve had a Wilson Border Patrol (870) for quite a while and recently picked up a 1301 Tactical Mod 2 from my LGS. I’m a long time 870 owner, and still own a couple, but I have to say that I am very impressed with the 1301. It’s very light and compact.

Semis have come a long way since I last owned one in the 90’s (a very finicky 11-87).

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
For a budget option, it's hard to beat a Turkinelli clone for less than $500. Run a few boxes of your chosen load through for function and familiarity and then it's fine to sit in the corner by the bed thereafter.

If you're actually going to shoot it regularly, definitely spend the $$ on a Beretta or Benelli.

I was going to say if you wanted a Turkinelli, then go with Stoegar because Beretta owns them 100%, but after watching old Ordnance Outseller's newest video, I'm not sure I'd go that route, either.

JMHO but trying to save money by having a shotgun you can't train on isn't much of a bargin.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
For a budget option, it's hard to beat a Turkinelli clone for less than $500. Run a few boxes of your chosen load through for function and familiarity and then it's fine to sit in the corner by the bed thereafter.

If you're actually going to shoot it regularly, definitely spend the $$ on a Beretta or Benelli.

I was going to say if you wanted a Turkinelli, then go with Stoegar because Beretta owns them 100%, but after watching old Ordnance Outseller's newest video, I'm not sure I'd go that route, either.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BX7MiIUx7_E?si=mb0G0syvRSigOQoz" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I was going to say if you wanted a Turkinelli, then go with Stoegar because Beretta owns them 100%, but after watching old Ordnance Outseller's newest video, I'm not sure I'd go that route, either.

I have a Stoeger Coach Gun in 12 gauge, and it is a good, fun shotgun, though a bit limited in what it can do. But it is more difficult to screw up the gun design, it has far fewer parts and components than a semi-auto. I recently read that the Benelli A300 UP uses a Stoeger barrel to help bring down the price.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
JMHO but trying to save money by having a shotgun you can't train on isn't much of a bargin.]

I can definitely see the value in doing a lot of training if you are LE or Military and the shotgun is likely to be employed in a variety of unknown scenarios. For most of us, it is a bump in the night gun and would be used if the miscreant breaches your safe room while you are waiting for 911. I can't envision the situation within my house where I'd be walking around with a chest rig full of reloads. I'd say whatever is in the gun is the beginning and end of the story. Many of the skills that are important on the street (or in 3-gun matches) may not hold the same significance in HD.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:


I was going to say if you wanted a Turkinelli, then go with Stoegar because Beretta owns them 100%, but after watching old Ordnance Outseller's newest video, I'm not sure I'd go that route, either.

I don't own a tactical semi-auto shotgun, but I have a Beretta A300 Outlander and my son has a Stoeger M3000. The A300 uses pretty much the same action as the Patrol, whereas the M3000 has the rotating bolt head of the Benelli M2. I'm sure being gas operated, though, the recoil differs significantly in the 1301.

The Stoeger isn't a horrible gun, but I feel like the action doesn't go into battery as positively as my A300. It feels weak and sluggish. The last time we shot clays my Beretta was flawless but about halfway through the Stoeger needed the charging handle smacked forward about 30% of the time to lock it into battery...a realm problem when you're trying to shoot true pairs. We only got through about 75% of the course before we ran out of time, too, so it wasn't that many rounds.

As far as felt recoil I didn't notice much difference between the two designs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

IMHO the Benelli M2 is the premier autoloading shotgun.

Inertia guns are kind of a spooky voodoo. I understand the physics of how it works but it is a little non intuitive.

I estimate that I have fired 15-20000 rounds through mine over more than a decade of 3-gunning. The sole malfunctions were at a winter match and I had a grease that was too thick for the cold conditions as my lube, and a magazine tube spring that had weakened with use.

Yes. I'd just add that the military, LEO and common citizens carry semi-auto pistols instead of a revolvers for a reason. The same goes with AR15s vs a Winchester 1894.

JMB designed the first absolutely reliable semi-auto shotgun over a hundred years ago. Price alone kept pumps in play since then. Duck hunters use a variety of semi-auto shotguns in very harsh conditions and they still work.

Pumps save you money and and that is really the only valid reason I can see for buying one today.

Not every semi auto runs with reduced loads. Every pump will.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Pumps save you money and and that is really the only valid reason I can see for buying one today.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

… I can't envision the situation within my house where I'd be walking around with a chest rig full of reloads. I'd say whatever is in the gun is the beginning and end of the story. Many of the skills that are important on the street (or in 3-gun matches) may not hold the same significance in HD.

Im not running around with a chest rig full of reloads, but Im really liking these:


https://skdtac.com/esstac-shotgun-card/

Loaded gun, one velcro’d on the side, a few loaded in my pocket.
Run out of rounds, peel the old one off, slap a new one on.

So far, so good. The velcro is holding up after -/+ 1000 rounds, in and out of a soft side case, safe, car trunk…

I’ve learned a few things over the years, one of which is you can never have too much:
Money
Horsepower
Ammo

If you really NEED it, and you ain’t got it, you’re in a real bad situation!

The 1301 is a really nice shotgun. The 940 faired well too.

https://youtu.be/48KJL2AQwsg

I've had a 1301 for at least a couple of years now (late production 2nd gen). It's been dead to nuts reliable with every load I've put through it, from light target to 3" magnum slugs. These were killer deals when Beretta was clearing them out to make space for the then upcoming Mod2, but I bought mine a few months prior to that and paid around $1200 for it, where the Mod2 regularly sells for $1750+ MAP from authorized Beretta shops.

Hard to argue about whether the Patrol is a $800 less worthy gun than the Mod2, bacause it isn't. Yes the Italian 1301 has some notable improvements over its less costly American sibling, but I don't believe that the average civilian buyer isn't going to realize those differences. However I DO think that the QC consistency of the 1301 is better than the A300. We've had some Patrols whose actions have sounded and felt like they were assembled in a dirt-laden gravel pit. With the cranky ones that wind up being the floor models on display, we've usually worked the action for several minutes just to smooth up the action some to make those guns seem 'showable'. I've never had to do that much prep fussing with a 1301, or with a Benelli M2 or M4 for that matter.

I will say that I don't like the Mod2's larger bolt lockup button at the base of the elevator as much as the smaller one that's on the earlier generation guns like my own. It in combo with the elevator tends to pinch me if not watching yourself, something that NEVER was an issue with the older versions. The new semi-straight trigger is a lot of hooey to me, and simply reusing the furniture from the A300 Patrol does make the Mod2 seem seriously overpriced because to the casual buyer they do appear to be almost the same gun, making our jobs as sellers of the 1301 that much harder.

I have in the past thought about sending my 1301 into Langdon for a makeover, but honestly besides its lack of M-Lok capability I don't think that the gun is seriously lacking anything else as-is from the factory. It runs great and I can rectify the M-Lok concern by simply buying the requisite updated foreend, or splurge on LTT's modified Magpul alternative.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
My home defense shotgun has alway been a Remington 870. It's probably 25 years old and was considered the go to shotgun at the time.

I've been reading about and watching reviews about the Beretta 1301. There is absolutely no question that it is "better" in every way than an 870, but does it matter in a HD situation? It seems like a lot of the features are designed for optimum performance in 3-gun competition. Are things like extended controls for rapid reloads actually advantageous in real life? Seems like you are pretty deep into fantasy scenarios if you've fired 8 buckshot at the miscreants and have the opportunity to reload.

What do you think? What does the 1301 bring to the table in a real life home scenario over the 870? Enough to justify the almost $2,000 price tag?

I have a tricked out Benelli M2 that holds 12 rounds in the tube. It's not my HD gun, but if it were, that 12 rounds would be what I had. There's really not a practical application of the 3 gun shotgun once it runs dry in the real world. Because all the kit it takes to keep one fed is not practical to keep on your person, which is where it needs to be. I could envision scenarios where a military unit, with all the team support that they can give each other, could have a shotgunner for dedicated tasks.

For an individual at home, an AR with a 30 round mag is a better choice, and this is coming from someone who loves 'combat' shotgun matches.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Not every semi auto runs with reduced loads. Every pump will.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Pumps save you money and and that is really the only valid reason I can see for buying one today.

^^^
Agreed but we are talking HD not cheap practice loads. And like any weapon, you find loads that work and you stick with them. And it's easy to short stoke a pump with any round.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
^^^
And it's easy to short stoke a pump with any round.

BB61 - Yes Sir, agree 1000% with your comment. It is easy to short stroke a pump especially if that person is an older 60+ year old female (even though she grew up shooting pump shotguns), like Ms. Sig. It requires strength, and a certain amount of coordination while shooting and some of that can be lost as some folks get older.

Because of this we went to a Benelli M2 about a year ago and Ms. Sig and I are very comfortable using this shotgun. A forum friend provided us eight dummy rounds that we still practice with today (we try to pull out this shotgun at least once every 30-60 days and practice). I am sure if our home defense shotgun was a 1301 Mod.2, it would also work great for our needs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigarmsp226,

^^^
It's easy to short stroke at any age and experience level. I've been hunting with an original Browning A5, Gold and Benelli for over 40 years. I've had three FTE in that time. One was a bad reload (a pump most likely would have cycled) and two operator errors where I went up on a bird and obstructed the ejection port with my gloved hand.

My point is quality semi auto shotguns are reliable. My Versa Max Tactical will cycle any 2.75" and 3" load intermixed without any hiccups. Semi autos also have a softer felt recoil which is helpful for many and of course they have a faster cycling rate.

I stand by my original assertion that unless cost is an issue, a quality 3B (like the 1301) or the V3 is the better choice.

As an aside, my boys got a Winchester SXP when they started hunting. A great pump action and $$$ less than a BBB. They clearly do the job and do it well, but I wouldn't trade my BBB for one. LOL.