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Benelli is offering several new M4 models having a 5-position collapsible stock and a factory 7 round magazine capacity. Berelli SKU 11714 for example. They seem to be using a 'plus 2' extension to create seven round capacity. Anyone know what they are doing to circumvent 922r regulations on these imported shotguns? These models are referred to as a 'M4 T-Pro'. ------------------------------------------------------------ "I have resolved to fight as long as Marse Robert has a corporal's guard, or until he says give up. He is the man I shall follow or die in the attempt." Feb. 27, 1865 Letter by Sgt. Henry P. Fortson 'B' Co. 31st GA Vol. Inf. | ||
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| Member |
The 11714 is from the Benelli Law Enforcement catalog. They are meant to be sold to LE, so 922r doesn’t apply. However, some dealers will sell them to civilians. The buyer doesn’t have worry about 922r since they aren’t the one who assembled it. | |||
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Spread the Disease |
A better question: how many people have gotten arrested for 922r violations? ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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Member |
Zero, at least as a stand-alone charge. It’s an ambiguous, unenforceable law. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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| Member |
Gentlemen, I realize there are a bunch of non-LEO's running around with collapsible stock M4's having 7-shot magazines (some on YoUTube)! Many thanks for your prompt replies! From them; I infer that it would be difficult to be successfully prosecuted for manufacturing a nonconforming 922r shotgun. However, in the unlikely event you were (as a non LEO) found with a Benelli Model 11714; you would still be in possessionof an illegal weapon. Exactly as if you were found (after a 100% 'good shooting')in possession of a second hand "Turkanelli' fitted with a collapsible stock and 2-round extension magazine extension. I strongly suspect (that in either case) the BATF would/might "allow" you to do a "voluntary abandonment"of your shotgun. Best pricing on a Benelli 11714 is around 2k from Botach or Berelli. Best pricing on a decent "Turkanelli" plus aftermarket collapsible stock and mag. extension is around $500. Am I correct in believing the only 100% legal way to possess either of the above is to add the requisite number of 922r parts? I'm aware that Freedom Fighter Tactical (FFT) has them available; but they're terribly, terribly $pendy!! Would it also work to shorten the barrel slightly (9/16") and pay the $200 tax stamp for a SBS? ------------------------------------------------------------ "I have resolved to fight as long as Marse Robert has a corporal's guard, or until he says give up. He is the man I shall follow or die in the attempt." Feb. 27, 1865 Letter by Sgt. Henry P. Fortson 'B' Co. 31st GA Vol. Inf. | |||
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| Member |
You could not be charged with violating 922(r) if you bought the shotgun in the particular configuration that it is in and then did nothing to it. You can’t “manufacture” a shotgun that you purchased in its current configuration and then did nothing to it to modify it. Government agencies can legally purchase these shotguns and then dispose of them legally to non LEOs. The prohibitions in place are against importing “non-sporting” firearms, which the government is exempt from, as well as manufacturing a non sporting firearm from a compliant one. You didn’t import it, and you didn’t manufacture it, therefore you have violated no law. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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Military Arms Collector |
If you're this worried, go pick up a Maverick and move on, nothing to see here. | |||
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| Member |
This. Read 922r. It’s a prohibition on assembling or manufacturing. There is nothing about “possession”. Show me any law that prohibits possession of a non-922r gun by a civilian. | |||
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| Member |
^^Exactly, well said^^ | |||
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"Member" |
That was always sort of my argument. "You're in possession of an un-importable firearm." Okay.. but I'm not importing it.  | |||
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| Member |
IMO there is exactly one positive from the ATF on the brace rule and its subsequent detailed Q&A. And that is the ATF made absolutely clear that it is simply not possible to be in violation of 922r after the fact. Once its built, its built and that's that. You don't build it, you are not responsible. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Member |
Again, many thanks to all who clarified the issue! Took delivery on my 2nd. Benelli M4 last Friday. ------------------------------------------------------------ "I have resolved to fight as long as Marse Robert has a corporal's guard, or until he says give up. He is the man I shall follow or die in the attempt." Feb. 27, 1865 Letter by Sgt. Henry P. Fortson 'B' Co. 31st GA Vol. Inf. | |||
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I think there’s almost no chance it isn’t struck down if it went to court. --------------------------------------------- "AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald | |||
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