Looking to make my Geissele Super Duty rifle into a DMR and I am looking for input for a 1x6 or 1x8 scope. The mount will be a Scalarworks LEAP mount. I did look at the AR mounts thread for ideas, and since I already have a similar LEAP for my red dot, I should be GTG. I really like the Primary Arms ACSS reticle and am looking at the 1x6 FFP Raptor scope, but was hoping for some good scope input from the best forum on the Net I am on a limited budget, but will save up for the right scope if needed. Thank in advance.

Not suggesting that it comes close to what you want and can afford, but my rifle that is intended for that role is the Leupold Mark 6 1-6×20mm with reticle illumination.

I obviously believe you’re looking at the right type of scopesight. My only quibble with what you describe is the ACSS reticle (as I understand it to be) because I prefer reticles that are not calibrated for specific ammunition. When using a reticle fully calibrated in minutes of angle or mils it’s a simple matter to develop a “dope” card (trajectory chart) that provides much more detailed holdover figures than a reticle that’s calibrated for a specific load in 100 yard/meter intervals.

quote:

Originally posted by Klusk2:
The mount will be a Scalarworks LEAP mount.

I am on a limited budget, but will save up for the right scope if needed.

Well, if you are on a budget I would skip the cooolieo $399 mount... because a $399 Raptor in a $399 mount is just, well, uh, weird?

Plenty of serviceable $150-200 mounts.

For a 1-6x I would recommend the Vortex PST 1-6x24. True 1x, clear glass, daylight illum. <$600

If you have $1500, I recommend the Nightforce NX-8.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
If you have $1500, I recommend the Nightforce NX-8.

Where are they available for $1500? (If you can answer the question off the top of your head.)

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
If you have $1500, I recommend the Nightforce NX-8.

Where are they available for $1500?

There are a handful of companies offering Nightforce demo and open box scopes. Sportoptics and Eurooptics for sure. Sometimes Mile High.

Google "nightforce demo" and pick through the options.

Yes, I see that EuroOptic has an MOA demo for $1449.

I bought mine from Brownells on sale for $1700 and they also had a 10% off code which worked, so it was right at $1530 shipped.

Demos are out for $1400-1500 and on the used market you can get them around that as well.

If your serious NF NX8. If not Vortex 1-6.
I use the NF and its the best we have right now. But if realistically true 1x isn't required there are lots of other (less cost) choices...

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
If your serious NF NX8. If not Vortex 1-6.
I use the NF and its the best we have right now. But if realistically true 1x isn't required there are lots of other (less cost) choices...

Vortex Razor 1-6.


The Strike Eagle is NOT in the same class, not even close.



IMHO the Vortex Razor 1-6 with the JM1 is the best all around AR optic available.

Razor is nice but the PST 1-6X24 Gen 2 is 80%+ for 50% of the price.

I was so underwhelmed with the Razor after owning the the PST Gen 2 that I returned it and bought an NX8.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Razor is nice but the PST 1-6X24 Gen 2 is 80%+ for 50% of the price.

I was so underwhelmed with the Razor after owning the the PST Gen 2 that I returned it and bought an NX8.

The PST Gen 2 is nice.

And if it had been out when I bought my first Razor I probably wouldn't have a Razor.

The JM1 reticle is worth some premium IMHO. But I don't disagree with your position Rhino.

I like it for a DMR optic:

https://youtu.be/wP8m0h7R2jA

The NX8 is definitely a very nice piece of hardware.

I would like to snag one but right now if I splurge on anything it's gonna be a good thermal.

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the Nightforce NX-8 as well. There used to be a LE purchasing program, so I'll look into that. Which version should the reticle be in, MRAD or MOA?

quote:

Which version should the reticle be in, MRAD or MOA?

Either, whatever you are used to. Both Vortex PST / Razor and NightForce offer both options.

I have MOA in both my PST G2 and NX-8 and know my hold overs accordingly.

I really don't see a difference between MOA or MIL. My scopes are all MIL, but that's just because it's what I bought first and stuck with. If you hand me your dope card, I can shoot your MOA scope just fine. Windage will be a little harder, but I can get the math close enough...I think. If you want to use your reticle for ranging (which internet commandos claim they do, but I highly doubt it), then MIL has that advantage. I know how to range standard doors, windows and a torso with mine, but I've never really used it. I need to learn how to range a deer with it. That might be useful, but even then, I usually know the range based on the tree they are standing by, or I have time to range them with my finder if they are further out.

Whatever you buy, just stick with that for all your other scopes. You don't want some MOA and some MIL.

I'm a big fan of the Viper PST Gen 2 line. My only problem with the 1-6 is they don't offer it in a FFP. For the money, I think the Trijicon 1-8 is better anyways. That is one of my favorite scopes. You can fine them for just under $1k fairly easily. Great glass and built like a tank. If you want to spend a little more, the NX8 is outstanding as well. I'm not sure most will ever tell the difference between the Triji and the the NF though.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
I'm not sure most will ever tell the difference between the Triji and the the NF though.

Other than weight (25oz vs 17oz) and daylight bright illumination (Accupower illum can occasionally be seen during the day, but it's not daylight bright like an NX8, Razor, or even PST Gen 2).

I spent a lot of time with the Accupower 1-8x at Shot the first year and really wanted to like it (also owned a 1-4x Accupower at the time), but both caps exposed isn't to my liking on a scope in the 1-x power range.

My NX-8 is the civie version so it does have an exposed elevation with Zero stop but a capped windage. I may buy the LE-both capped version at some point.

Not saying the Accupower isn't a nice scope, but it has some features that just don't work for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Klusk2:
Thanks for the suggestions. I like the Nightforce NX-8 as well. There used to be a LE purchasing program, so I'll look into that. Which version should the reticle be in, MRAD or MOA?

If you happen to lean towards a Vortex Razor, get the JM1. Fast and intuitive.


This is my subtension data for Swiss Geco 55gr 223 out of an 18".

velocity measured by chronograph, confirmed by actual drop on targets:




Zero at 200.


As you work your way out:

300, 400, 500, 600.


I like MRAD reticles for precision and yes you can certainly learn your holds.

I have loaned my rifle/optic to new shooters at matches who were struggling, talked them through the reticle in 30 seconds, and watched them clean rifle targets out to 500 yards when they were previously timing out and hitting nothing beyond 100 yards.



The width of the stadia can be used to range in a pinch if necessary.

They are 8.5 inches wide at their corresponding distances.

This is useful on typical steel targets with are usually 8-10 inches wide. If you are shooting at IPSC paper, you can measure from the center of the 'chest' to the outside shoulder. It is better to have a laser rangefinder but knowing how to range with it can be handy on big arrays of targets if you lose track of your distances.

I agree that the caps on the 1-8 Accupoint don't need to be exposed; especially considering it's a FFP scope. Who's dialing dope at even 8 power? I assume most are using their holdovers and sending it with a 1-8.

That being said, at least they made them robust and you have to lift them to move them. I've never had mine adjust on accident like some other exposed turrets that don't lock.

As for a BDC reticle vs an MOA or a MIL reticle, I don't like BDC's because they are so rifle specific and I think it's better to learn the bullet.

For example, if you learn a BDC great it will work with that rifle and round. But if you learn what a bullet does, you can apply it to anything.

I know what an average 55, 62 and 77 grain 5.56 bullet will drop in mils (same for 300 blk, 7.62x51 and I'm learning 6.5 Creedmor but still forget sometimes). Obviously how hot something is or how long the barrel is will affect it, but if you tell me the grain weight and hand me a rifle with a MIL scope, I can put it in their pretty well without really thinking (gotta tell me what it's zeroed at obviously). If you hand me an MOA scope, I've gotta do some math and will be much slower, but I don't need any outside information. That's worth knowing and it isn't hard to learn. If you hand me a BDC reticle, I have to ask the rifle owner what the marks are in distance.

BDC reticles kind of cheat you from learning the ballistics of the various rounds. If you only want one gun and one main bullet, BDC is the easiest though.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
I agree that the caps on the 1-8 Accupoint don't need to be exposed; especially considering it's a FFP scope. Who's dialing dope at even 8 power? I assume most are using their holdovers and sending it with a 1-8.

That being said, at least they made them robust and you have to lift them to move them. I've never had mine adjust on accident like some other exposed turrets that don't lock.

It wouldn't bother me to have exposed turrets that lock.