There are many options for multi-hit ceramic plates. Steel plates are heavy AF and need something to address bullet spall. Most steel plates have an anti-spall coating, but you’ll want to be sure. Plates are nice to have just in case. I would not use a plate carrier as my primary means of carrying mags. A good belt with a few mag pouches is the best option. Additionally, rifle plates are not the best means of stopping handgun threats. For that you need level IIIA soft armor.

When I was policing I had a load bearing vest with four double mag holders on the front and a empty dump bag at the left back pocket area….if I had to deploy the rifle the vest went with it.

I defend casa de mike with a shotgun now. Next to the bed is a shotgun loaded with #4 buck, a shot card velcroed (00 buck) to the receiver and my old soft body armor with three other shot cards….slugs, 00buck & 00buck.

If it’s the middle of the night and I have to get the shotgun, I don’t care what I look like, if I’ve got the gun I’ve got the armor and my sexy black boxer briefs

If your looking for a few mags off your body just get one of those sling thingy bags that hold a few mags and roll

quote:

I would not use a plate carrier as my primary means of carrying mags. A good belt with a few mag pouches is the best option. Additionally, rifle plates are not the best means of stopping handgun threats. For that you need level IIIA soft armor.

The above would confuse me completely. If I'm going to bother to put on a set of plates I might as well have the mags on it as well and be ready to go. Throw on carrier, grab rifle, put on helmet and go... Why on earth would I then stop to add a belt and mag pouches as another thing to put on??? for what possible benefit?
And the second part just makes no sense. Rifle plates are THE BEST possible means to stop handgun rounds. Now if you don't expect any rifle rounds then yes wearing rifle plates is overkill on weight etc. but it is the best protection you can get.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

When I was in the Army an LBE, belt and 2 ammo pouches was an easy way to make 6 mags readily available. It swung on pretty quickly too.

I bet surplus it would be pretty inexpensive too.

I just use a HSGI belt and dual mag pouches, rifle and pistol.

I'm going to address the "taking classes" aspect of the OP, rather than the "shit just got real" aspect that most others have taken.

If you're taking a class, you're there to get the most out of your training dollars and time. Get support gear that will maximize your experience by minimizing the times you have to run off the line to get fresh mags, get a fresh battery for whatever, grab a multitool, etc. I guarantee you that anyone else in the class who looks at you with a "ha, look at that poseur" look will be asking you about your gear when they see that you've got all the shit you need on your body and don't hold up the class for constant mag refreshes.

Moreover, screw that guy. Get the gear that works for you and who cares what it looks like if it works.

You don't need a plate carrier (let alone plates!) to use a chest rig. There are plenty of stand-alone chest rigs out there that will allow you to carry 3ish magazines plus other gear using a lightweight X- or H- harness. Most of them these days also have velcro backing so the carriers double as placards that stick right on the front of a plate carrier.

But, as others have said, I'd start from the belt up, since that's where you'll have your pistol, reloads for the pistol and at least one long gun magazine. There are so many belts out there and so many companies making good support gear that it's hard to know where to start.

For the belt, I'd simply make sure it's a thick nylon construction with an inner belt system, has a cobra buckle of some sort, and the outer belt accepts MOLLE, FOMI quick clips, Helium Whisper or any of the bazillion other modes of attaching pouches. A thinner belt (like 1.75") will also allow the use of Tek-lok attachments.

Get the belt first, figure out how much real estate you have vs. how much you need for pouches, then get the pouches.

I personally use an RDR Gear enhanced instructor's belt as my more modular setup using Tek-lok pouches and a VTAC Skirmish belt as my "big" belt solely for ARs. I can quickly configure the RDR belt for AR, AR10, AK, MPX and a variety of handgun mag pouches. I swap holsters around quickly using a G-Code RTI wheel, though you can do the same with Safariland ALS gear.

T-rex Arms, Viking Tactics (VTAC), Blue Force Gear, G-Code, RDR Gear, Ronin Tactics, Ferro Concepts, First Spear, HSGI, Tactical Tailor, GBRS Group (though you might bleed from your eyes when you see the price of one of their belts!) are all good to go for belts. I'm sure there are a dozen others, too.

PS: Don't let anyone give you shit for having a dump pouch. You'll appreciate a place to bring a water bottle to the line on a hot summer day or being able to police up all your empty mags as you go instead of having to walk all the way back down the range to pick up empties when you started a string at 7 yards and ended up at 100....

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

I would not use a plate carrier as my primary means of carrying mags. A good belt with a few mag pouches is the best option. Additionally, rifle plates are not the best means of stopping handgun threats. For that you need level IIIA soft armor.

The above would confuse me completely. If I'm going to bother to put on a set of plates I might as well have the mags on it as well and be ready to go. Throw on carrier, grab rifle, put on helmet and go... Why on earth would I then stop to add a belt and mag pouches as another thing to put on??? for what possible benefit?
And the second part just makes no sense. Rifle plates are THE BEST possible means to stop handgun rounds. Now if you don't expect any rifle rounds then yes wearing rifle plates is overkill on weight etc. but it is the best protection you can get.

Rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor.

Always remember to stand square to your target with rifle plates. Don’t try to get skinny and stand sideways.

quote:

Rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor

Huh? Certainly not as a general and universal rule. Rifle plates (and people too) come in plenty of different sizes. Same for soft armor. I have plenty of both and there is no general trend in this regard. You can have simple and very light soft stuff that doesn't wrap around and large rifle plate carriers with side plates that do and offer way more protection than the soft armor wrap around which really is an attachment.
What you wear will determine the applicable gaps, not the type or armor per se. But one should take some note to the idea to not expose yourself to threats in an area that you have limited protection. But of course if we are talking rifle threats you head is already a big problem.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
But of course if we are talking rifle threats you head is already a big problem.

I think that's an important point. Your noodle is always going to be what the enemy can see most often, because you need to expose it to see and shoot at him! Helmets used to be a priority in warfare, but the GWOT has changed that attitude somehow. I guess it's a comfort thing, but it's certainly odd that a "bump" helmet gets just as much consideration as ballistic nowadays.

It seems as though the OP has made a choice of sorts, and gotten some gear; sounds like he got decent stuff at a decent price too.

I'll add my .02 to the discussion, just because I am seemingly a little different. I am not a fan of battle belts; I suspect it's because of my physiology, as they have just always been uncomfortable to me. My belt supports my pistol, two pistol mags, and a dump pouch. I attach them to the belt I wear to hold my pants up, not an additional belt. All rifle mags, and anything else, go on my chest rig or armor. I have had a dedicated plate carrier setup for years, and it has survived largely unchanged. Lately, however, I have been preferring a slick plate carrier with a chest rig over it. There are enough situations in training, and hypothetical real-world scenarios, where it's advantageous to be able to wear your equipment without the weight and discomfort of plates, in my opinion, that I appreciate the modularity. A great example is a movement of any significant distance with a pack.
I do not want to wear plates beneath my pack; toting a heavy ruck is already mostly unpleasant. I'd much rather stow the slick carrier in the pack, if the situation wherever I am going requires it (or may require it), and don my chest rig with the pack. I have access to essentials in the event of an unexpected engagement on the journey, but I don't have the potentially compromising discomfort of the plates on my body.

I think folks worry too much about what they look like. The people who want to make doubly sure they don't look "tacticool" are almost as bad as those that strive for the tactical look. I understand the "grey man" approach, of course, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here, because it hasn't been mentioned. Just get what works. In most cases, the stuff that is going to be the most efficient in any sort of combat is going to be tactical.

For an at home bump-in-the-night, I think an extra mag and tourniquet on the buttstock is convenient and practical. The bandoleer-style carriers others have mentioned seem like a great idea too. Mr. clang mentioned the older LBE rigs; that's a damn good suggestion for all the reasons he mentioned, and it served our soldiers well for decades. However, me thinks maybe those poor old LBEs aren't "tacticool" enough, even for those who want to avoid the tactical look.

I have come to like the minimal chest rig by Haley Strategic. I have a similar, older one by Eagle that can carry 5.56 or 7.62. My Haley Strategic is for PCC mags. I also use a belt to carry additional mags or other gear if needed. Though probably not a good choice for training or quick reload, I’ve noticed a different and interesting solution supposedly made for govt agencies by Apocolypse Gear or something like that. Basically a bag to carry rifle mags on one side and pistol mags on the other with a strap to throw and go.

This is similar I’m guessing and better than nothing but not very secure if you’re running or dropping prone. https://www.brownells.com/shoo...pouch-prod27325.aspx

Like someone else pointed out earlier, if you’re whipping out the long guns, concealment and low key isn’t an option anymore. May as well have something you can throw on quickly that’s loaded up. A good belt is a good start and decent option if you aren’t traveling far. Heavy loaded mags and weight on the hips alone gets old quickly and isn’t very secure compared to a rig that helped support and secure the weight.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

I would not use a plate carrier as my primary means of carrying mags. A good belt with a few mag pouches is the best option. Additionally, rifle plates are not the best means of stopping handgun threats. For that you need level IIIA soft armor.

The above would confuse me completely. If I'm going to bother to put on a set of plates I might as well have the mags on it as well and be ready to go. Throw on carrier, grab rifle, put on helmet and go... Why on earth would I then stop to add a belt and mag pouches as another thing to put on??? for what possible benefit?
And the second part just makes no sense. Rifle plates are THE BEST possible means to stop handgun rounds. Now if you don't expect any rifle rounds then yes wearing rifle plates is overkill on weight etc. but it is the best protection you can get.

Oh I keep mags on my plate carrier. I’m saying I wouldn’t use my plate carrier as the primary means of keeping mags. It’s heavy and bulky and if you are actually going into harm’s way, you need IIIA soft armor under your plates. That will take time to put on. It’s also really LARPy to just have on at the range.

I have a belt with mag pouches and pistol holster that’s first line. I also have a TT MAV split front chest rig as a quick grab and go. It lives in my range bag.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

Rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor

Huh? Certainly not as a general and universal rule. Rifle plates (and people too) come in plenty of different sizes. Same for soft armor. I have plenty of both and there is no general trend in this regard. You can have simple and very light soft stuff that doesn't wrap around and large rifle plate carriers with side plates that do and offer way more protection than the soft armor wrap around which really is an attachment.
What you wear will determine the applicable gaps, not the type or armor per se. But one should take some note to the idea to not expose yourself to threats in an area that you have limited protection. But of course if we are talking rifle threats you head is already a big problem.

Rifle plates absolutely have less coverage than a level IIIA vest. Plates are designed to sit high on the chest to protect the heart, aortic arch, and thoracic aorta. Even with side plates, there are gaps in coverage.

This is the reason why Dragon Skin had so much hype before falling from grace. Rifle caliber full torso coverage without gaps.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

Rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor

Huh? Certainly not as a general and universal rule. Rifle plates (and people too) come in plenty of different sizes. Same for soft armor. I have plenty of both and there is no general trend in this regard. You can have simple and very light soft stuff that doesn't wrap around and large rifle plate carriers with side plates that do and offer way more protection than the soft armor wrap around which really is an attachment.
What you wear will determine the applicable gaps, not the type or armor per se. But one should take some note to the idea to not expose yourself to threats in an area that you have limited protection. But of course if we are talking rifle threats you head is already a big problem.

Rifle plates absolutely have less coverage than a level IIIA vest. Plates are designed to sit high on the chest to protect the heart, aortic arch, and thoracic aorta. Even with side plates, there are gaps in coverage.

This is the reason why Dragon Skin had so much hype before falling from grace. Rifle caliber full torso coverage without gaps.

Rifle plates have less coverage than a 3A vest is not the same sentence as rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor.

All my soft armor is cut exactly the same size as my plates.

What he said about your statement, "not a general and universal rule", is 100% accurate.

If you are not going to wear plates or soft body armor, I recommend something lightweight. Spiritus Systems MK4 chest rig is a superb setup. You can get a full setup for $200 or less. It is lightweight, modular, easy to wear and conceals under a shirt, windbreaker, light jacket, etc. I have one and love it. I use it here in the summertime where it's too hot to wear a full chest rig to train/shoot in.

There are ceramic plates designed for multi-hit protection.

There is much to be said in favor of having both a battle belt, and a plate carrier rig. If there is no time to don the heavier rig, the battle belt can serve the grab-and-go role. Other possibilities, for the grab-and-go role, are a bandolier, or a sling bag. As I see it, if someone really wants to hurt me, or my wife, perhaps because we both played roles in sending felons to prison, the bad guys may just ram a stolen pickup truck or van right through a wall of our home. So, being able to plate-up is a nice option, but grab-and-go needs to be addressed, as a priority.

My plate carrier is kept “slick,” because that is how I wore it, while a police patrol officer, who worked night shift, and preferred that my long gun be a shotgun. (There were plenty enough young bucks, who toted AR15 patrol rifles.) Notably a armored vest, with Level IIIa softer armor, and Level III ceramic plates, is quite a load to carry. Before committing to the expense, one may want to try one of those workout vests, that carry weights, to see if toting that much weight is worth the effort.

I am retired, now, and still like my Benelli M2 shotguns for home defense duties. If BLM or alt-right terrorism* comes to town, I can quickly convert my old duty belt to a battle belt, by attaching several Kydex mag carriers, to accommodate AR/M4 mags.

To be clear, I am not trying to discourage anyone who prefers the AR/M4 system, over the shotgun, for home/personal defense. Any debate about that should be started in another discussion thread.

*I reckon that both alt-right and BLM folks have reasons to hate me, and I consider both to be credible threats.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rexster,

Another member mentioned a bag-style approach to spare AR magazines - I have such a cross-body bag from US Peacekeeper that works nicely for me.

If I was trying to conceal a spare AR magazine for some reason or otherwise needed / wanted to carry one on the trouser belt, my Milt Sparks fanboi-ness yielded the following recently, and in good old “natural tan” to match my belt and typical holster / mag pouch setup, to boot haha…






For what it’s worth, I didn’t “commission” this one with Sparks; it showed-up at their online store and I couldn’t resist.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

Rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor

Huh? Certainly not as a general and universal rule. Rifle plates (and people too) come in plenty of different sizes. Same for soft armor. I have plenty of both and there is no general trend in this regard. You can have simple and very light soft stuff that doesn't wrap around and large rifle plate carriers with side plates that do and offer way more protection than the soft armor wrap around which really is an attachment.
What you wear will determine the applicable gaps, not the type or armor per se. But one should take some note to the idea to not expose yourself to threats in an area that you have limited protection. But of course if we are talking rifle threats you head is already a big problem.

Rifle plates absolutely have less coverage than a level IIIA vest. Plates are designed to sit high on the chest to protect the heart, aortic arch, and thoracic aorta. Even with side plates, there are gaps in coverage.

This is the reason why Dragon Skin had so much hype before falling from grace. Rifle caliber full torso coverage without gaps.

Rifle plates have less coverage than a 3A vest is not the same sentence as rifle plates have less coverage than soft armor.

All my soft armor is cut exactly the same size as my plates.

What he said about your statement, "not a general and universal rule", is 100% accurate.

Fair enough.

I like plates and the nice thing is i can just throw it on and have instant front and rear protection plus mags and a med kit. Win. I like battle belts and dump pouches as well. I'm currently doing a LBT carrier 6094? with a grey ghost battlebelt with esstac pouches if that helps anyone.

As previously mentioned anyone who "mall ninjas" you for wearing armor is an idiot. With that said scale to your problem. If someone comes to my house they aren't there for the tv so i have to expect a more serious problem than a burglar. Also realize if someone kicks your door you might not have time to grab it. If you are going to get training it is very nice to have atleast a battlebelt and plates. You will also find out why dump pouches are nice as almost all training involves lots of failure drills and clearences. Good luck and I'll just say don't run something else just because someone else runs it. Don't skip buying something just because someone says it's dumb if it works for you unless they can completely explain why and it jives with you. Run what works for you and what you likely have to encounter.