quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
...Whether we notice the effects of a shot or two or not, the damage is cumulative and in time it can become very significant...

This, times a thousand. And, when you already sustained some degrees of permanently hearing loss, you won't perceive the true loudness anymore. And, you feel like it's not loud at all. It's your body, but it's a huge mistake not to wear hearing protection, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Maybe just bone up on shooting skills.
Practice can't hurt.

I have a friend that is an avid hunter,

he was a mediocre shot, for 2 reasons, he was customizing and sporterizing milsurp actions and using irons or scopes (he was not set up then to do any real machine work or precision type work,,,

and he did not know the rifle fundementals,

after many many years of poking and proding, he started shooting Service rifle,
and is now a Master or High Expert,


he told me a few years ago he was glad he finally started competing, since the skills used in the sport bled over into hunting,

just simple stuff, breathing etc, he was skipping or taking for granted, when hunting, he now did second nature while hunting and has become a better hunter,

Low and left is jerking the trigger if he is a righty. Equals buck fever. The only thing I can think of is to put a go pro in his stand and watch him. With the camera present he might follow the basics and not jerk the trigger.

If you’ve already checked all the mechanical possibilities, loose bases, loose rings, etc

And not to belabor the point, but our hearing is important enough to discuss another topic: audio exclusion.

Yes, it is a real phenomenon that’s often mentioned by police officers after a gunfight. It occurs because the brain is paying attention to things other than the signals the ear is sending. That occurs because of high stress or excitement in something like hunting. On the other hand, however, hearing damage occurs because of how loud noise affects the physical structures of the ear itself. Those effects and the damage they cause occur regardless of whether the brain is paying attention to the noise or not.

quote:

Originally posted by mesabi:
I agree with YellowJacket. Auditory exclusion is a real thing.

As I sit here with tinnitus I can assure you that even if the adrenaline of the moment overcomes the pain of unprotected ears at the moment, damage is being done.

I have always used ear protection but more than a decade around thousands of rifles firing with muzzle brakes has taken it's toll. I now have premium in-ear electronic plugs and I still sometimes wear muffs over them.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
...Whether we notice the effects of a shot or two or not, the damage is cumulative and in time it can become very significant...

This, times a thousand. And, when you already sustained some degrees of permanently hearing loss, you won't perceive the true loudness anymore. And, you feel like it's not loud at all. It's your body, but it's a huge mistake not to wear hearing protection, imo.

Electronic ear protection can be a godsend in a stand.
Not wearing ear pro while shooting high powered rifles - even “just that one shot” is just plain dumb.
Paraphrasing Sigfreund above, the damage is cumulative and WILL become significant.
The thousands of dollars I’ve spent on hearing aids would have allowed me to buy the most zooty rifle made.

Friend missing deer besides having scope turned up too high, he could be flinching BECAUSE of the lack of ear pro. Scope at 10 power at less than 100 yards, he may just be seeing hair rather than that “spot” he should be aiming at.
(I picture where the medulla is and aim there or 2” below if antler is in the way. Bang-flop)

Why can’t targets be set up and shot from the stands? It may seem silly to the OP but it could also be VERY revealing.

Just peeked at this thread, he seems mismatched in several ways. I knew a guy who went black bear hunting with a similar setup, heavy semi-auto 308, as large of a magazine as legal. I don’t remember the outcome, mind you, if he got a shot 20-30 yards is max. One seldom gets 2 shots.

I’ve hunted GA whitetail deer before, south of Atlanta. My location offered a close shot, usually smallish deer.

That scope is high power for inside 100 yards. The gun seems awfully heavy. I wonder if shots are being rushed? With the breeze in your favor, if the deer hasn’t been pushed, often one has a ‘little’ time.

Does he have the typical AR type heavy trigger? There is the scenario of shooting live game. Some get worked up & get a touch of ‘deer fever’.

If I was hunting there, in cover, 100-150 yard shot on the upper end, I’d use a modest weight 243 with a 3-9 or 2.5-8 pwr scope, dialed to 4.

I’ve been shooting with some that were having issues at 100 yards, at the range. There was no definitive grouping, not enough to adjust the scope. What I do is bring them to 50 yards until they settle down and get that definitive grouping.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
...Whether we notice the effects of a shot or two or not, the damage is cumulative and in time it can become very significant...

This, times a thousand. And, when you already sustained some degrees of permanently hearing loss, you won't perceive the true loudness anymore. And, you feel like it's not loud at all. It's your body, but it's a huge mistake not to wear hearing protection, imo.

Electronic ear protection can be a godsend in a stand.
Not wearing ear pro while shooting high powered rifles - even “just that one shot” is just plain dumb.
Paraphrasing Sigfreund above, the damage is cumulative and WILL become significant.
The thousands of dollars I’ve spent on hearing aids would have allowed me to buy the most zooty rifle made.

Friend missing deer besides having scope turned up too high, he could be flinching BECAUSE of the lack of ear pro. Scope at 10 power at less than 100 yards, he may just be seeing hair rather than that “spot” he should be aiming at.
(I picture where the medulla is and aim there or 2” below if antler is in the way. Bang-flop)

Why can’t targets be set up and shot from the stands? It may seem silly to the OP but it could also be VERY revealing.

I guess I wont respond to your “dumb” comment but the reason shooting from the stands is silly is because the stands all have a 2x4 rail or plywood sheet to rest the gun on, or rest your forearm and hold the gun up with your hand. I can replicate that anywhere without having to setup targets in various locations around the property. All stands have a fairly comfortable chair and a roof. All of this is very similar to shooting from the cabin where we always set up the targets, with a safe, natural terrain backstop. Elevation doesn’t matter because he has missed from a ground blind shooting level and a stand elevated about 15 feet.

Also, he can go to any number of ranges here without driving 2.5 hours to my farm to shoot. And we don’t shoot during deer season. So some of this is waiting to see if he’ll take the initiative to go practice on his own.

<Major snippage>

quote:

Not wearing ear pro while shooting high powered rifles - even “just that one shot” is just plain dumb.
Paraphrasing Sigfreund above, the damage is cumulative and WILL become significant.

quote:

I guess I wont respond to your “dumb” comment but the reason shooting from the stands is silly is because the stands all have a 2x4 rail or plywood sheet to rest the gun on, or rest your forearm and hold the gun up with your hand. I can replicate that anywhere without having to setup targets in various locations around the property. All stands have a fairly comfortable chair and a roof. All of this is very similar to shooting from the cabin where we always set up the targets, with a safe, natural terrain backstop. Elevation doesn’t matter because he has missed from a ground blind shooting level and a stand elevated about 15 feet.
Also, he can go to any number of ranges here without driving 2.5 hours to my farm to shoot. And we don’t shoot during deer season. So some of this is waiting to see if he’ll take the initiative to go practice on his own.

Okay, I get the not shooting in stands while the deer season is on. Been there.

The lack of ear pro while shooting is in fact “dumb”. I’m sorry if it sounds harsh or inappropriate. I don’t mean to be insulting or condescending. It’s just a FACT that shooting without ear protection is a VERY bad idea. Doesn’t matter what the circumstances are - war, hunting, practice, it’s loud and damaging unless you have subsonic ammo and a can - then you can get away with it.
It doesn’t matter if you if you don’t perceive the sound as loud or damaging due to the circumstances,
IT IS, AND IT WILL GET WORSE!

Even if you *like* the loud sounds: loud concert, range, running chainsaw, loud engines, etc., it is damaging.
If you have no females, children or loud environments in your life or in your future, go ahead and ignore your ear protection.
The tinnitus that is a certainty in both your future and your friend’s future is a royal bitch.

I learned too late that my young and dumb days shooting w/o ear pro cost me dearly.
Don’t make the same mistake I did!
Protect your hearing like it is is gold bullion. Later in life you would trade gold for having 1 of your 5 senses back.

Get your semi-talented shooting friend some practice in hunting positions. It will make his life more fulfilled. There is no reason an even semi-talented shooter can’t bring down a deer.
I hope you guys can figure out what is going on.