quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Sig's rifle looks similar to The Fix by Q. It would be interesting to know if they are completely separate designs, or if they share parts/manufacturing/design.

Interesting move on Sig's part -- catering to the low-weight precision market. Time will tell how the 277 Fury works out.

I have no dog in this fight. I have Defiance actions -- Remy 700 footprint -- and have no desire to change.

Social media posts by Q suggest that Sig ripped off the appearance. Not sure about actual design.

I believe The owner of Q worked at Sig Sauer a couple of years back.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
A bayonet firing pin or firing pin assembly simply twist out of the bolt w/o tools.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Sig's rifle looks similar to The Fix by Q. It would be interesting to know if they are completely separate designs, or if they share parts/manufacturing/design.

Interesting move on Sig's part -- catering to the low-weight precision market. Time will tell how the 277 Fury works out.

I have no dog in this fight. I have Defiance actions -- Remy 700 footprint -- and have no desire to change.

Social media posts by Q suggest that Sig ripped off the appearance. Not sure about actual design.

I believe The owner of Q worked at Sig Sauer a couple of years back.

Yes, Kevin Brittingham left AAC and went to SIG to help with their silencer division, then left to found Q down the road a ways.

SIG ripped off the appearance of another gun‽
Is that a serious complaint?

And just exactly why? Because a rifle has an adjustable stock, a saw handle pistol grip (credit to Jeff Cooper for that term), a detachable magazine, and a barrel? Oh, no: it has a handguard that makes it possible to attach accessories, a Picatinny rail to mount sights, and a bolt handle to chamber and extract cartridges too! Will the ripping off never end?

Manufacturers, like some … other people of our acquaintance, should learn that there are times when it’s best to just not say anything, no matter how provoked they feel.

Agreed.

The original concept of said "SIG rip off", the H&R M4 survival rifle in .22 Hornet, dates back to the late 40´s. That was even before Cooper and the "social media".

Ammo info:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/di...ig-fury-demystified/

quote:

Originally posted by creslin:
Ammo info:

Excellent, and well worth the read for anyone interested.
But 80K chamber pressure and 140 grains at 3000 fps from 16", and a nonmagnum case‽ Just when we (I, anyway) start to think that there can be nothing new in cartridge development ….

It will be very interesting to see if they can truly deliver on adequate barrel life.

Thank you.

That is an interesting article on the ammo. I don't really know the implications of 80k chamber pressure. But it has to decrease barrel life, as opposed to 50k or 55k chamber pressure.

It's interesting that the 277 case appears to be the same length as the 308 case. As I see it, this makes it difficult to use high-BC long-for-diameter bullets down the road. The article states Sig will use a 135 grain bullet for accuracy. Sounds like the 135 SMK, which may be about the only precision bullet in a 277 bore. And the 135 SMK has a G1 BC of .488 -- nothing to write home about.

80k chamber pressure might be a challenge for semi-auto rifles to handle. Might require this cartridge being in a bolt action only until further development occurs with AR10-ish platforms.

^^^^

Well, it is being developed for belt-fed machine guns and a carbine, seems like they have it figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
seems like they have it figured out.

Time will tell. Even firearm & ammo systems introductions which are relatively minor variations on a proven theme can require some tweaking subsequent to initial introduction. The 277 Fury is based on the 308 case, which isn't anything earth shattering. But the bi-metal case, different powder(s), and high pressures are different.

I pretty much guarantee some people are already thinking how the 277 Fury might work in an AR10-type platform. Probably won't be a blowback action, however....

I'm uncertain what the muzzle device is on Sig's bolt action rifle. Looks more like a suppressor mount, as opposed to a flash hider, comp, or brake. I suspect the Fury in a 16" barrel with a brake would be really loud. I suspect a fairly robust suppressor might be necessary for a 16" barrel -- definitely something more than a can rated for sub-sonic 300blk.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Sounds like the 135 SMK, which may be about the only precision bullet in a 277 bore. And the 135 SMK has a G1 BC of .488 -- nothing to write home about.

Berger makes .277 bullets now (they didn't until fairly recently), including several with claimed G1 BCs over 0.5 and a 170 grain bullet with a claimed G1 BC of 0.662. That's probably the only real long-range .277 bullet available.

Of course, any factory .270 Winchester will have too slow a twist to stabilize that bullet and too short a throat to chamber it. Time will tell on the .277 Fury.

Will those greater pressures mean more recoil?

Recoil per se isn’t affected very much, if at all, by chamber pressure.

Recoil is mostly due to the weight and velocity of the bullet—Newton’s third law and all that. (The recoil effects we feel are also of course affected by the weight of the gun.) A small component of recoil is due to the velocity, but especially the weight of the propellant. Based on my research, propellant velocity is pretty constant, and as the 277 SIG Fury round’s case isn’t unusually large, the propellant weight wouldn’t be unusual either.

There are accepted methods for calculating recoil, but for rough comparison purposes I just use the “Power Factor” of the round:
bullet weight in grains × velocity in feet per second ÷ 1000 = PF

The PF of a 140 grain bullet at 3000 fps would therefore be 420. By comparison using factory data the PF of the Federal 308 Winchester 168 grain Gold Medal Match load at 2600 fps would be ~437. The 168 GMM is not a particularly hot load. Unlike kinetic energy that varies with the square of the velocity, recoil varies directly with both velocity and bullet weight. That’s one of the reasons why loads with relatively low velocities, but heavy projectiles are such thumpers. Examples are 12 gauge shotgun slugs or large bore black powder loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Will those greater pressures mean more recoil?

The fury is essentially attaining 270 win velocities from a shorter barrel. Per recoil charts:

17 foot-pounds of recoil from a 270 win, 140 grains at 3000fps

compared to other typical rifle recoil figures, in foot pounds:
16-18 for 308 win
13-14 for 7mm-08
12-13 for 260 remy or 6.5CM
10-11 for 243 win or 6CM
18-20 for 30-06

I got a chance to shoot a Sig Cross rifle last weekend. It was in 6.5 Creedmoor, not 277 Fury. Overall I was very impressed. There are a few little things that could use some (minor) tweaks, but it was a pre-production rifle and I expect some changes will be made.

Overall, it was very accurate and easy to shoot well. Great trigger.

Pics are uploading, will share them when they are done.

This is an open post to SIG Sauer.

Once bitten, twice shy.

I drank the cool-aid on the Blaser LRS2. Multiple barrels, calibers, bolts, mags. It is a great Bolt Action design. I still have it, and love it.

Then you discontinued it as you do with many of your designs.

How long will your support for the Cross Rifle last??? What is your commitment to the platform? What is your commitment to the supported calibers? How long will you be offering this rifle, and is that long enough for parts to be available indefinitely?

I have many of your discontinued products and find parts are either made of unobtainium or are outrageously expensive.

H&K-Guy

Let’s be clear. SIG is not back in the bolt gun game after a long hiatus. Sig Sauer USA, the home of beta testing early adopters, less than Century Arms QC/QA, and a history of dropping/no longer supporting products is making a bolt gun. Yay. I’ll wait 10 years to see how this shakes out.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Yay. I’ll wait 10 years to see how this shakes out.

you'll only need to wait about six months for the Gen2 to be released

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
you'll only need to wait about six months for the Gen2 to be released

Is that before or after the "Mandatory Safety Upgrade (NOT A RECALL!!!!!)"..?

Where's my MPX caliber conversion kits??? I wants me my damn kits, man! 'Cause the MPX Generation 9, Mandatory Recall Iteration 14, Upgrade Level 7, in .40 S&W, or especially .357 Sig, is gonna' rock!

Oh, wait, never mind. Discontinued and abandoned soon after it was advertised. Right. More vaporware.

But yeah, the Cross Rifle in 277 Fury is gonna' be da' bomb, dawg.

H&K-Guy