quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
When I was looking into tripods I came across this guy.

Thanks, but I started watching that video a few days ago and could take only a few minutes of his presentation style. Maybe I should try to tough it out.

I checked out quite a few of his vids.
The dude sure likes to kill pigs.
Has some pretty cool gear, looks like fun.
The 330 yd free hand shot at night on a running pig was cool.

Watched some of that video!

Comparing his ball-head/clamp set up to a leveling base with a ARCA clamp. Leveling base is so much more simple! Simple-better, simple-less opportunity to mess something up, simple-faster.

Other advantage to the ARCA system is the ability to clamp other stuff. Bought this RRS clamp a couple years ago used at a good price with the idea to loan it to others at local matches who don't have tripods. Of the clamps, the RRS is nice in that both sides of the jaws move when loosening/tightening.

Bino mount.

https://www.precisionriflesolu...roducts/show/2901124

I've shot from a tripod more times at Competition Dynamics matches (Steel Safari, Team Safari, Team Challenge) than the other matches. Slightly behind is the 2-rifle matches in Raton, NM. Depending on how the stages are set up in a given year, the NRL at Craig, CO comes next.

ARCA clamping systems have been thoroughly embraced by the competitors at these matches. The top competitors use ARCA clamps for rifles, binos, spotting scopes, and laser range finders. Those who wish to engage targets quickly and score well use ARCA -- gone are the days of HOG saddles, U-shaped saddles, and bags on plates on tripods. When competitors feel that tripods are too slow to set up, they tend to use the heavy Game Changer bags (laid sideways) on a barricade/log/rock.

I agree that many shooters can be quite competent using a bag on surfaces as a rest. But in many matches over the years, I see that the ARCA clamp users will shoot more accurately than their peers with bags on tripods. In many situations, a bag on a barricade/log/rock is faster to set up than a tripod -- thus when time is of the essence, the bag makes sense. But I have never seen a competitor set up a bag on a plate on a tripod as quickly as clamping a rifle directly into an ARCA tripod.

An example of tripod use at Steel Safari. South course, called stage 5 or 6, depending on the year. The targets at Safari don't change all that much from match to match, but the subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) changes in the shooting position(s) sometimes make for some significant changes in stages. Offgrid and I found out the hard way in a Team Safari match that complete reliance on the prior match's setup can lead to a seriously hosed stage here and there.

This stage involves 3 steel targets and 2 shooting positions. The targets tend to be 10" (-ish) diamonds, unpainted, and rusting steel closely matching the color of the surrounding dirt. With good eyes and the right time of day, two targets can often be seen by the naked eye -- if one knows where to look. In bad light, the targets can be challenging to see with 8x binos. Distances to targets are generally in the ballpark of 250, 300, and 350 yards. We tend to shoot from the flats of an old drainage, across the bottom of that drainage, with the targets on the opposite rising banks.

Safari stages are 5 minutes long. Start with carrying all your gear. You get a quick look at the shooting position(s), and the left and right limiting vectors of the potential target area. Then the clock starts -- find targets, range targets, one shot per target. Sounds easy, eh?

On this stage I found 2 of the 3 targets almost immediately. #3 popped out once I got on LRF binos from the tripod. For the first shooting position, I choose to use my bipod on a knee-high rock for the front support. Rear support was one leg of my RRS tripod, with legs extended about 2/3s. Quick 3 hits, with minimal windage requirements.

The second shooting position was about 30 yards forward, from a flat rock. I jogged forward with only the rifle and a rear bag, thinking I had this one. Shooting the targets in reverse order, the longest target was no big deal from prone with a fully extended bipod. Middle target -- ruh-roh, I had to shoot through a substantial mesquite bush. My bullet severed a branch, but still hit the target.

The close target was a no-go from prone, as an even heavier mesquite bush blocked my sight picture completely. So....I ran back to the first shooting position, asking my RO to count down the remaining time. Ran back with the tripod, futzed with the clamp for a second (felt like an hour), got the rifle on target, and broke the shot a second or two before time was out. Whew.

Finished the stage with 6 of 6 points, panting heavily, sweating like a pig in 100+ degree heat. The RO and I laughed that one off. Funny thing, I RO'd the shooter after me, and he did almost the exact same thing. Welcome to the Steel Safari.

Safari's North course usually includes one 2x3 stage that's a tripod setup nightmare. The first shooting position tends to be in a jumble of rocks, none of which offer easy rifle/bipod/tripod placement. Sometimes even with a general slope to the left. Generally, every tripod leg is extended to a different length. The forward shooting position is generally near the rim of a canyon. The near target is low in a gulch (150-200 yards), at a substantial down angle. The middle target is in a mix of trees in the flats (300-350 yards), and the far target is in the open in the flats (500-550 yards).

From the rearward shooting position, the far target is often naked-eye visible, and can be shot from prone -- if a #&$%! prone position can be developed. The middle target is rarely visible from prone, but requires a kneeling-height tripod support. The near target is only visible from a standing position, with one or two of the tripod legs fully extended.

From the forward shooting position, the near target almost always requires tripod support -- generally from a kneeling position. If one carefully picks a good shooting position, the middle and far targets can often be shot from prone. But sometimes there's a bush in the way for the middle target, requiring kneeling tripod support.

The far target is small enough that even a low and solid tripod position may not be stable enough for a high-percentage hit. Add to that the common winds on that section of the North course. The near target is almost big enough to shoot off-hand -- if you're really good at that. The near target tends to be tall, but really skinny -- wobble side-to-side and it's a miss.

I struggle with such a stage. I've never got all 6 shots off -- 3 shots on a bad day, 4 shots is normal, sometimes I get a 5th. My normal score is 2 or 3. But I've also had a 0 and a 1. Only the best of the best score 5 or 6 here.

I generally go for only the middle and far targets from the rear position, shooting from kneeling tripod support. I go for the far and middle targets at the forward position, then the near target if time allows. Setting up a stable tripod consumes much of my time. Fitting the tripod feet between the rocks is challenging. When I used a HOG saddle clamp, I rarely was stable enough in the wind. The ARCA system is noticeably better.

One of the better Safari shooters does such a stage with all shots from standing-height tripod with an ARCA clamp. I RO'd him once. He used a monopod for rear support on the middle and far targets. His score of 6 on the stage was a work of art.

Thanks for all that!

I've shot stages that required a tripod, but much of the time they are not allowed. Some stages will allow a tripod for secondary support (e.g. the front of rifle on a barricade, rear on a tripod leg), but it really slows a shooter down.

Some of the newer tripods with Arca mounts can be remarkably stable, nearly as stable as a bench and bags.

On the subject of rail mounts.
Is there an advantage using an ARCA rail over a picatinny rail like the ADM or Reaper pic Rail?

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
On the subject of rail mounts.
Is there an advantage using an ARCA rail over a picatinny rail like the ADM or Reaper pic Rail?

I've messed with a friends A5 stock with a full length pic rail. I much prefer the wider ARCA set up. With the ARCA and the rifle balanced well the rifle will sit on the clamp w/o it being clamp, not tilt over... The wider stance rail/clamp got some wiggle room to almost drop the rifle in. Easier and faster.

Rifle resting on the leveling base not clamped in.

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
On the subject of rail mounts.
Is there an advantage using an ARCA rail over a picatinny rail like the ADM or Reaper pic Rail?

+1 to offgrid's comments above

ARCA offer easier front-to-back adjustments. One just loosens the clamp slightly, then slides the rifle as little or as far as desired. For/aft adjustments with a pic rail requires completely unlocking the clamp, then moving in the required 3/8" increments. If the recoil lug bar doesn't line up exactly with the pic rail slot, there will be some jockeying to get it seated prior to re-clamping.

A long ARCA plate under the rifle's forend also allows minor-to-major for/aft adjustments to the bipod. At some stages at some matches, I can't obtain enough elevation with my bipod legs fully extended. But I can move the ARCA-clamped bipod to the rear and obtain additional elevation. This is much faster than using a pic rail for the bipod.

Timely thread.
I have been looking at websites, videos, and various forum posts for about a week thinking about getting a tripod for use at the range.

Got a question, though: Do the clamp styles (either ARCA rails or the hog-saddle type clamps) cause any concern for wood stocks? I know that when one clamps a rifle into a lead sled set up, there is risk of the stock cracking from taking all the recoil impulse; wondering if that's a risk with clamping into a tripod head?

What little experience I’ve had with wooden stocks has been limited to attaching a short section of Picatinny rail to a Ruger 77 Varmint model in 308 Winchester. I drilled all the way through the stock from the bottom and secured the screw with a nut and washer. The stock was laminated and fairly thick, and I never saw any sign of problems with using a bipod attached to the rail.

I would assume the thickness and type of the wood would be key factors. In researching Arca rail mounts I ran across one company that offered the rail and tools to modify (wood?) stocks to take T-nuts, presumably to attach the rail with 1/4×20 screws. My Picatinny rail mount was more or less permanent, but using a T-nut would allow the rail to be attached and removed as desired.

As for the vise type clamps such as the Hog Saddle, I wouldn’t think that any reasonable clamping pressure would crack a stock, but perhaps the best thing would be to contact the manufacturers of such devices. If shooters were cracking their stocks, I’d think the companies would have heard of it.

quote:

Originally posted by valleyforge.1777:
Timely thread.
I have been looking at websites, videos, and various forum posts for about a week thinking about getting a tripod for use at the range.

Got a question, though: Do the clamp styles (either ARCA rails or the hog-saddle type clamps) cause any concern for wood stocks? I know that when one clamps a rifle into a lead sled set up, there is risk of the stock cracking from taking all the recoil impulse; wondering if that's a risk with clamping into a tripod head?

Clamp or rail the tripod still moves a bit and does not absorb all the recoil, sorta like a bipod.
Which is why stance and tripod position is important for follow up shots.
If the wood stock can use a rail for a bipod then it will work for a tripod as well.
If I was concerned about the stock cracking around the mounting holes I would opt for a head with a saddle type clamp.
On my Bog it doesn't take much force to lock it down secure and the rubber doesn't booger the stock if you do crank it down tighter than it needs to be.

Holds this up without without having to crank it down.

quote:

Originally posted by valleyforge.1777:
I know that when one clamps a rifle into a lead sled set up, there is risk of the stock cracking from taking all the recoil impulse; wondering if that's a risk with clamping into a tripod head?

I am not aware of a stock cracking from being placed in a lead sled. If this actually occurs, then I suspect the stock was defective and/or inadequately designed for the rifle's caliber.

If a stock cannot handle the forces of being clamped into a tripod head, then the stock is seriously defective and/or inadequately designed for the caliber.

Over the weekend I shot in two matches at Raton -- 22lr and center fire. For the tripod stages, I used a RRS and VYCE head (essentially an improved HOG saddle) on my 22lr rifle, and a RRS and ARCA rail for my 6.5CM rifle. My 22lr is a Kimber with a traditional wood stock -- it resembles a pre-64 Winchester Model 70.

I never did feel all that solid with the 22lr in the VYCE head. I shot the stage well, but I had to time my trigger breaks to the wobble in the sights. And I was shooting from kneeling position, with a Weibad pump pillow between my right thigh and the buttstock.

I was quite solid with the ARCA setup. Noticeably more stable than the clamped 22lr. ARCA stability is for real.