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Sako or Daniel Defense *update 9/16 Login/Join 
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Picture of pepsiblue
posted
You walk into your local shop, and there on the rack are two used precision bolt guns. A Sako TRG-22, 26” with a green stock, and a Daniel Defense Delta 5 Pro in gray, both in 7.62x51. For this discussion let’s leave cost and politics out of it. Which one would you rather have, and why? Personal experience is a bonus!

Question:
The Sako or the DD?

Choices:
DD
Sako

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pepsiblue,





10mm lays waste to entire cities, cuts through diamonds and will tear Superman a new asshole. - Parabellum

Sex offenders can not be rehabilitated. It's in their wiring. They should not be released back into the general public. On the other hand they should not be warehoused either. I think they should be executed.....Spectre

When someone tries to kill you, it doesn't matter how they are doing it. You're in mortal danger, and it's time to try to kill them back.

Arc.
___

Kill every last one of these goddamned animals. We need a president with balls. We need leadership. We should be carpet bombing these barbarians wherever we find them, and we should be looking for them 24/7. We have to unleash Hell upon them. They understand nothing but death, so death is what we should bring them, wholesale.... Para

I left "practical" behind many years ago. It was covered with my first Glock 19. (Fredward)
 
Posts: 2389 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: July 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
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I am going to have to go with the Daniel Defense.
It’s about 2 pounds lighter, magazines aren’t $175, and I won’t be able to outshoot either gun.


————————————————
I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
Andrew Schwab - Project 86
 
Posts: 23952 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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If this is the Daniel Defense rifle you’re referring to, and you plan to actually shoot it in any sort of “precision” discipline, I would choose it without hesitation. Its accuracy (precision) guarantee is unusual even in this day of much-improved precision rifles, and although the TRG is a very precise rifle, it doesn’t guarantee that standard. But even ignoring that factor, the TRG is an old design that doesn’t permit anywhere near the degree of adjustments and accessorizing that the DD does. I had TRGs in both 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor and I much prefer the Tikka TAC models I have that replaced them.

On the other hand, the TRG has a classic coolness that the DD doesn’t, so there’s that.

And I should have asked before voting, but what is the barrel length of the DD?

Added: I just looked at the Sako site and see that the TRG has been brought a bit more up to date with at least a couple of more modern stocks in the A1 and M10. I would still prefer the DD chassis over those Sako models, but they would be better than the original style.




7/93
 
Posts: 45916 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Like a party
in your pants
Picture of armored
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My Son has a DD Delta (not DELTA Pro).
He loves the way the gun shoots and the available adjustments along with the trigger.
you can remove the barrel on a DD and replace with a drop in barrel of a different caliber.
Drop in barrels are available from DD and Proof Research.
 
Posts: 4142 | Location: Chicago, IL, USA: | Registered: November 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As someone who has been a TRG addict for a very, very long time. This is not the point to get one. There are lovely nice capable rifles, but time has now left the design in the rear view mirror. And parts which were never easy to get, but obtainable are now very hard to get and beyond expensive.
Net, net run for the DD.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10216 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Both rifles are chambered in 308 Winchester, not 7.62x51.

308 is getting long in the tooth for precision shooting. These aren't hunting rifles, therefore other calibers fly better with less recoil. Unless you plan to shoot in 308-only competitions (so the 308 shooters have a chance to win), look at newer chamberings such as 6.5 Creedmoor and 6 Creedmoor. 308's only real advantage over 6.5 Creedmoor these days is barrel life, and few rifle owners will ever shoot enough rounds to burn out a barrel.

Sako TRGs are well made rifles that shoot with great accuracy. I don't care much for the stock's ergonomics, but I have shot TRGs well from prone. Sako is proud of their product -- high rifle cost and crazy magazine costs. The new TRGs with modern stocks are just WTF expensive.

I haven't shot a DD bolt action rifle. The limited reviews I've seen the web are quite promising. The rifle is attractively priced. It uses a Pmag, which is a great way to keep the overall price of ownership down.

I prefer to source precision rifle components, then have a good gunsmith assemble a precision bolt action. But if I were looking at a turnkey rifle, the DD has to be on the short list. The Sako wouldn't be anywhere on the list.
 
Posts: 7402 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Both rifles are chambered in 308 Winchester, not 7.62x51

I'm having a hard time with this opener in context of this discussion. Yup running something better is optimal for anyone shooting competatively (me personally I've gone to 6.5cm including in a TRG) But I don't think anyone running a .308 TRG will give a hoot about the .308 versus 7.62x51 issue, nor a DD bolt.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10216 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Without a doubt Sako. The runner up to that would be Tikka.

I’m a Daniel Defense fan boi, but I won’t buy their bolt guns when Sako exists.

EDITED: Personal experience with TRG-22 (in a green stock) bipod and rear bag (I am not a DeltaCAGRangerSEALSniper) I can hold 10 rounds at 1” with Lapua 175 grain Scenar-L HPBT.

I’ve owned a Bavarian Carbine in 6.5 Swede as well as the 85 Classic in .308. All of the rifles shot the same amazingly small groups without issue. I regret selling my Bavarian and 85 Classic. But it pained me to take it out hunting in the rain and snow.
 
Posts: 776 | Location: NE Pennsylvania | Registered: December 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by davidjinks:
Without a doubt Sako. The runner up to that would be Tikka.


My thoughts exactly.
 
Posts: 868 | Location: WV | Registered: May 30, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jcsabolt2
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My first purchased bolt gun was a Sako 75 in .30-06 a few decades ago. I settled on the Sako after shouldering every manufactured bolt gun the dealer had. Sako fit like a glove, trigger broke crisp and clean and was user adjustable. The Fins paid a lot of attention to detail, fit and finish, as do I as a buyer. I would imagine a Sako TRG-22 given its intended purpose would absolutely drive tacks, not to mention a work of art. If you feel you need to attach a bunch of extra tacticool kid accessories, etc. then by all means get the DD Delta 5 Pro.


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
 
Posts: 3460 | Registered: July 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One of my biggest gun mistakes ever was passing on a new Sako Finnbear in 7mm Mag. The Army Rod and Gun Club Store in Augsburg, Germany had them for $600 back in 1988. There were no tariffs or taxes on the guns they sold.

I wanted it badly, but my wife was very pregnant and we had a lot going on at the time. Still - I should have grabbed it while it was there.

+
 
Posts: 2740 | Location: Unass the AO | Registered: December 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't think some of these commenters have actual used a TRG. But in any case let's get to the details. First if you have an opportunity on a new style TRG (the A1 with a chassis stock and mlok etc.) then have at it (since for the moment we are leaving cost out of it).
If we are talking a traditional style TRG22 then not a chance I would recommend someone get one at this point, heck almost to the point of its being free since the cost of making it useful will exceed the cost of many of the other equivalent options including the DD.
The great thing about the TRG when it was introduced was that it was a complete eco system built around the action. The bipod was a factory item and is really well integrated, there were top quality factory removable optic mounts, iron sights, you had a factory brake, a foldable stock and add on picatinny rail and much more. All from the factory well engineered and ready to rock, no muss no fuss. The std. stock was adjustable with spacers and cheek pieces. The mag was a beautifully crafted double stack that defined reliable.
Time has passed all that by. We now expect pic rail as std. we want a forend with mlok, the atlas bipod runs rings around the trg one and there are ones that are better than that.
The barreled action is top notch and can be saved for many purposes by an aftermarket chassis system (I use the KRG on one of mine). But by the time you go to all that bother why start out that way?
Just to be clear I love the TRG. I have many of them. I loved shooting them for many years. But its past its prime. If you love it for its pedigree and classic style, have at it, but its not the best you can get in its type any more.
All as usual FWIW>


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10216 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I ordered a Tikka T3X Tactical in 308 and just received it yesterday.
I have to say the Sako/Tikka quality and fit is outstanding!
I will get out this coming weekend to get some trigger time in.
IMO, I would shoot the shit outta that TRG.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigmoid,


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Like the sword of Damocles, the wrath of God hangs over the unbeliever.
 
Posts: 1183 | Location: Idaho | Registered: July 07, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of pepsiblue
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So here’s an update, or as Paul Harvey would have said, “The rest of the story”.

Walked into a semi local shop last Saturday, and they had a used DD Delta 5 Pro, 20”, in 308. Long guns are self serve, so I gave it a quick once over, and left. My first impression was really good. I really liked it.
On the drive home I tried talking myself out of it. I have an old Remington 700 PSS that I love. A year or two ago I picked up Sako TRG22 on impulse. It was going to be an upgrade? to my 700, and a project. Well, it never made its way out of the safe. Then when I saw the DD, I felt like I needed it too, lol.
I made my post here, spent the weekend watching YouTube and googling the Pro, and trying to see all the info I could. There was very little negative, mostly just some hate from the guys that build their own. “Why would you buy a DD when you can build one for the same money?” was a common theme. Everyone agreed that they shoot lights out.
I called the shop Monday and asked a few questions about the particular model. Waited another day, hoping it was gone, and called back to ask if they had layaway. If it was only 30 days, I was gonna pass. If it was 60 days, it was a maybe, and 90 days I had no choice but to get it. When she said they did 120 days, I had no choice! Went back today and gave a more thorough inspection, and put some money down. Not sure if I will keep the TRG or not, but that’s a whole different discussion!
Now I’m going to be trying to decide what scope to put on it!





10mm lays waste to entire cities, cuts through diamonds and will tear Superman a new asshole. - Parabellum

Sex offenders can not be rehabilitated. It's in their wiring. They should not be released back into the general public. On the other hand they should not be warehoused either. I think they should be executed.....Spectre

When someone tries to kill you, it doesn't matter how they are doing it. You're in mortal danger, and it's time to try to kill them back.

Arc.
___

Kill every last one of these goddamned animals. We need a president with balls. We need leadership. We should be carpet bombing these barbarians wherever we find them, and we should be looking for them 24/7. We have to unleash Hell upon them. They understand nothing but death, so death is what we should bring them, wholesale.... Para

I left "practical" behind many years ago. It was covered with my first Glock 19. (Fredward)
 
Posts: 2389 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: July 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This whole thread now makes no sense to me. If you already have a TRG just shoot it. Its a proven and completely satisfactory, very accurate, totally reliable bolt action .308. Shoot it till you wear it out. If you had asked is it worth getting the DD to replace the TRG I would have said not a chance. But to each his own on crafting their posts for advise, which of course is worthless with the wrong context.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10216 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of pepsiblue
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I can understand your feelings on my post. I was basically trying to gather everyone’s opinion on which rifle they would rather have, and why. If I had said that I already owned a PSS and a TRG, I feel like the typical response would have been why? You already have two rifles that do a similar thing, why would you buy another? That was not the response that I was looking for. What I took away from the responses to my post, kind of mirrored my own thoughts. The good…The Daniel defense may not shoot any better than the TRG. The TRG has style and class, and a definite status from the 90’s. The bad, not the best ergos, mags are $175-200, if you want to upgrade to a chassis your looking at $1k to start, any accessories you might want are extra pricy as well. If I want to spend time and money on a shooting system, I wanted to know which rifle the majority preferred. That’s all!





10mm lays waste to entire cities, cuts through diamonds and will tear Superman a new asshole. - Parabellum

Sex offenders can not be rehabilitated. It's in their wiring. They should not be released back into the general public. On the other hand they should not be warehoused either. I think they should be executed.....Spectre

When someone tries to kill you, it doesn't matter how they are doing it. You're in mortal danger, and it's time to try to kill them back.

Arc.
___

Kill every last one of these goddamned animals. We need a president with balls. We need leadership. We should be carpet bombing these barbarians wherever we find them, and we should be looking for them 24/7. We have to unleash Hell upon them. They understand nothing but death, so death is what we should bring them, wholesale.... Para

I left "practical" behind many years ago. It was covered with my first Glock 19. (Fredward)
 
Posts: 2389 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: July 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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People raise questions here all the time without providing a complete explanation of everything that led up to it. Sometimes it’s because it would be too much effort because it’s too complex, sometimes it’s because the background is really not relevant to the question, sometimes it’s to avoid introducing elements that serve to confuse the many people with poor reading comprehension skills or are too lazy to focus on the question and who therefore divert the question away from what was originally asked, and sometimes because of some combination of all three.

I often don’t try to explain everything that prompted a question for those reasons, and I believe I understand the OP’s reasons for not mentioning that he already owned a TRG. He could have asked, “Should I get another TRG,” and by not mentioning that he already owned one it led to responses that assumed he wasn’t familiar with the rifle. But responses that falsely assume knowledge or lack thereof get posted here all the time. I personally try to anticipate what people will assume in the absence of a complete background explanation and will try to head off certain responses such as, “Why do you want that?” but assumptions are still made.

In this case I can readily think of reasons why previous experience with a TRG wasn’t mentioned, if for nothing else than: “I want your thoughts and feelings about the rifle, and not colored by what I might know or think about the gun—and which might be completely wrong.” Which is pretty much as he explained, and that’s actually a somewhat unusual question here. Very more often than not people who are already familiar with a product aren’t really looking for information and advice, but rather confirmation of what they already believe.

And I could be completely wrong with the assumptions that affected my reaction to this thread. Smile




7/93
 
Posts: 45916 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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