March Optics has now introduced the Genesis scope. You can view the specs at www.marchoptics.co.uk for now and they should be showing up at marchoptics.com shortly.

I believe it's the first of a series which brings in new technology to deal with extreme scope adjustments. The Genesis is an FFP scope 6-60X56, yes a 10X zoom ration in an FFP scope. It has Super ED glass, the High Master system as DEON calls it, but more than that, the scope has 400MOA of total adjustment range. This range is 300MOA up and 100MOA down. Windage is 75MOA left and 75MOA right, total of 150MOA.

Wow.

It also has integral Picatinny mounts and a 6 position illuminated reticle.

I've noticed several other aspects and need to ponder on them for a bit. No, I have no idea how they achieved 400MOA of adjustment, but they also claim that you always look through the middle of the objective lens, even when set at 300MOA up. By the way, 300MOA is 5 degrees of offset.

Back later.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikonUser,

Is it possible that they built the vertical adjustments into the integrated rail? I'm guessing once you dial past a certain elevation on the reticle it moves the rail to compensate.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiburon91:
Is it possible that they built the vertical adjustments into the integrated rail? I'm guessing once you dial past a certain elevation on the reticle it moves the rail to compensate.

No, it's all done inside the body of the scope. Remember that everything stays centered through the objective lens, even with 300MOA. There is no rail, just a couple of Picatinny clamps integral to the body of the scope.

The new March Optics sight is an interesting development. One of the things that’s far better today than back in my youth is the state of long distance shooting. But although guns and ammunition have improved to a degree, the improvements in sights are amazing and nothing I could have imagined based on what they were like even 25 years ago (and no, that wasn’t in my youth).

I’ll wish March and all the other innovators the best, but I must say that it seems to me that the Genesis is aimed (NPI) at a narrow niche market. And if 300 MOA of elevation wasn’t narrow enough, I’ll be curious how the integral mount works for them. I understand its value (to a degree), but it narrows the market niche even more. I’m wondering now, did they decide to do that because the innards of the sight wouldn’t have fit into a conventional cylindrical tube of a standard diameter? The main body of the Genesis is a rectangle that appears higher than wide, which would explain the difference between the adjustment ranges of windage and elevation.

I noticed that Leupold’s new Mark 5 scopes have 35mm main tubes when I’ve only recently gotten accustomed to the idea of 34mm. When I saw that my thought was, “Oh great: new rings.” At least 35mm rings have been around for a while. It will also be interesting to see if any other manufacturers follow March’s design lead.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The new March Optics sight is an interesting development. One of the things that’s far better today than back in my youth is the state of long distance shooting. But although guns and ammunition have improved to a degree, the improvements in sights are amazing and nothing I could have imagined based on what they were like even 25 years ago (and no, that wasn’t in my youth).

I’ll wish March and all the other innovators the best, but I must say that it seems to me that the Genesis is aimed (NPI) at a narrow niche market. And if 300 MOA of elevation wasn’t narrow enough, I’ll be curious how the integral mount works for them. I understand its value (to a degree), but it narrows the market niche even more. I’m wondering now, did they decide to do that because the innards of the sight wouldn’t have fit into a conventional cylindrical tube of a standard diameter? The main body of the Genesis is a rectangle that appears higher than wide, which would explain the difference between the adjustment ranges of windage and elevation.

I noticed that Leupold’s new Mark 5 scopes have 35mm main tubes when I’ve only recently gotten accustomed to the idea of 34mm. When I saw that my thought was, “Oh great: new rings.” At least 35mm rings have been around for a while. It will also be interesting to see if any other manufacturers follow March’s design lead.

Those are great thoughts and good questions. Just like I would expect from sigfreund.

Let me say right off the bat that I know very little about the Genesis scope; I have not yet been able to find the patent application that would explain the principle behind the huge elevation range while still having the image centered on the objective lens. I had been told about the capabilities of the scope some time in the past but not how it was done. When I do find out, I'll come back here to explain it.

In the meantime, let me explain a few things. You talk about niche market. You are so completely right; March scopes are definitely a niche market, and it's even more rare than you can imagine. Each scope is hand made in Japan by very few individuals. As I understand it, there are about a half dozen engineers who hand assemble them and it takes about a day to assemble a scope and test it. Deon Optics (the manufacturer of the scopes) makes about 1200-1500 scopes per year. This is not large scale manufacturing, this is boutique, hand-made stuff. March is already a niche manufacturer. Their chief designer was the one who designed a whole slew of Nightforce scopes before starting his own firm.

The March scopes are all niche scopes, always pushing the envelope of what's possible and breaking new ground. They are NOT cheap and they are not for everybody and are not meant to be for everyone. The Genesis is another example of this envelope pushing. A 6-60X (10X zoom) FFP with monstrous adjustment range and High Master lenses, The price is near a breath-talking $6000. March Optics USA has already received several orders for the scope and it's not due for release for months.

The body of the scope is an octagon, not a rectangle and I cannot tell if it's higher than wide. I also know there is a gimbal built into the body, which would make up for any issues created by the integrated mounts. This is not the first scope with built-in Picatinny mounts, I believe Nikon's laser scope had an integral mount as did the Bushnell equivalent. Anytime you depart from a circular tube of standard diameter, you have to do something like that.

Brace yourself; Hensoldt, Zeiss, Schmidt Und Bender have 36mm tubed scopes.

Here is a video that shows how it works.
https://www.facebook.com/brt.shooterssupply

That explains why the brochure says the gimbal assembly is patent pending. That's the magic part that tilts the front objective assembly.

So, instead of the erector tube moving up and down in the main tube, they reversed it and the erector assembly stays in line with the objective lens as the entire scope moves up and down. This way you are always looking through the middle of the objective lens.

This could be applied to SFP as well as FFP.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikonUser,

As usual, thanks for all that explanation and discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

Brace yourself; Hensoldt, Zeiss, Schmidt Und Bender have 36mm tubed scopes.

Great. Maybe I'll just skip over the 35s.

Yeah, my original explanation was not quite correct, so I fixed it above and added a link to a video. It's pretty impressive.

I'm given to understand that there will be a way to adjust the height of the scope over the rail.

Yes, very impressive. Thanks for the video link.

No Compromise Optics is releasing a 36mm main tube model as well. The founders are former Nightforce and Kahles employees. It's marketed around PRS style shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
No Compromise Optics is releasing a 36mm main tube model as well. The founders are former Nightforce and Kahles employees. It's marketed around PRS style shooting.

MileHigh Shooting Supply is going to carry those. A couple of their employees shoot local matches, no doubt they'll have that scope on their rifles. Look forward to looking through one, spinning the turrets... Reports from Shot, the eye box rivals Hendsolt.

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
No Compromise Optics is releasing a 36mm main tube model as well. The founders are former Nightforce and Kahles employees. It's marketed around PRS style shooting.

I think you mean Zero Compromise Optics. Zcompoptic.com.

Yes, their ZC527 is 36mm and has 35 mils of elevation adjustment. Very impressive. That extra 2mm on the main tube gives it that larger range.

There are a lot of great products coming out now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikonUser,

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
No Compromise Optics is releasing a 36mm main tube model as well. The founders are former Nightforce and Kahles employees. It's marketed around PRS style shooting.

I think you mean Zero Compromise Optics. Zcompoptic.com.

Yes, their ZC527 is 36mm and has 35 mils of elevation adjustment. Very impressive. That extra 2mm on the main tube gives it that larger range.

There are a lot of great products coming out now.

Correct. Zero Compromise. I wanted to hold out for one but the anticipated release date is June or July. The reviews Ive seen are all favorable. The release date being June at the earliest kills it for me. I have a 7-35 NF inbound. I don't need to extra mag for matches, but this scope will be seeing double duty on my precision 22 for PRS style 22LR matches. Parallax down to 10 meters even at 35x. I'm guessing the ZCO will be north of $3,000.

Bump

Wow, a blast from the past. I had forgotten about this thread, thanks for bringing it back.

I've been extremely busy for the last several months and now the Nationals are fast approaching (3 weeks) and I have a business trip just before and still 400 rounds of match ammo to charge and seat bullets on. Phew.

I'll be examining the latest high magnification, high priced optics at the Nationals and I'll report back on anything new that I come across during the event.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I'll be examining the latest high magnification, high priced optics at the Nationals and I'll report back on anything new that I come across during the event.

Anything new?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I'll be examining the latest high magnification, high priced optics at the Nationals and I'll report back on anything new that I come across during the event.

Anything new?

I have to apologize for my tardiness in coming back here. As an explanation (not an excuse,) I drove back from the Nationals last Monday (14 hour drive) only to get on a plane and leave for the week on a customer visit.

When I got back home, I was swamped with life catching up after two weeks absence.

I had a great time at the Nationals, but I shot like crap. It was a confluence of age, deteriorating eyesight, elevation (6700ft ASL and I'm a very level guy, sea level that is,) a cold and just sheer fatigue (working too hard and too much.)

I spent some time talking with friends and acquaintances and of course, people talk optics with me. For some reason.

I did not see anything new compared to last year; the top of the line for F-Class (high magnification and second focal plane) remain the March (5-50X56, 8-80X56 and the HM 10-60X56), the Nightforce Competition 5-55X52, and unremarkable offerings from Sightron and Vortex. I'm not sure if we have reached the limits of what can be accomplished with non-electronic optics at this point. Just as a note, I run my March-X 5-50X56 at 40X most of the time and a quick survey of others with similar range optics seem to run them around 40X also. My reasons are because I can actually see the target number in the scope at 40X, (like that would help me - even with the target number in sight, I still managed to crossfire. Twice. On the same relay. Don't ask.)

My March scope has a large wheel for the side focus. I get better control of it with this wheel and several people were looking at it. Since we shot at 300, 500, 600 and 1000 yards, I was focusing quite often. I even noticed that on some days, even at the same distance as before, I could still refine focus.

On the last day, it was very bright and I used a reducer on the scope for the first time. I was unable to reach any conclusion about it as that day, my eyes were giving me a lot of problems; everything was just fuzzy that morning. By the time my eyes cleared up, we had finished shooting.

I've been invited to SHOT show again this year. If I can find the time, I will surely take them up on the offer. I hope to have a chance to see a Genesis in person, so to speak. I'll also have a look at what's new in optics.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I used a reducer on the scope for the first time.

What sort of “reducer”? Something to reduce the amount of light entering the sight? If so, is that specific to the scope, or some sort of universal attachment?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I used a reducer on the scope for the first time.

What sort of “reducer”? Something to reduce the amount of light entering the sight? If so, is that specific to the scope, or some sort of universal attachment?

These gizmos are known by many names; reducers, modifiers etc. What they are is a simple disk with a hole in the middle that you attach like a filter, in front of the objective lens and then cut down the amount of light coming into the scope.

Here is a link to the one I got:

http://www.marchoptics.com/pro...isk-For-56mm/MAR2013

The description is somewhat misleading, it cuts it by 50%, regardless of the conditions.

This device is not unique to the March scope, you can get those reducers/modifiers/apertures/etc for any scope. You can make your own by drilling a proper size hole in the middle of a front lens cap. Take the size of your front objective and figure out how to cut out 50% of the area.

So for a 56mm objective, the area of the lens if 2463 sq. mm. (28X28+Pi). Divide 2463 by 2, you get 1232, divide by Pi and you get 392. Take the square root and you get 19.8 for the radius or 39.6mm for the diameter of the hole.

So on a 56mm lens, to go down one stop, (half the light) you need a 39.6mm, call it 40mm aperture in front of the lens.

You can also see that you get twice as much light in a scope using a 56mm objective compared to a 40mm objective.

Why would one want to use a reducer/modifier? When you close the aperture, you get a larger depth of field, which allows you to perhaps discern more mirage thus helping you to make better shooting decisions. I'm not so sure and I usually use a spotting scope which has a much wider depth of field because its magnification is much less than the riflescope.

The jury is still out on this.