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posted
How's it work with the law ?

If Pete wants Paul to custom build a semi auto rifle from parts made and purchased by Paul ,
Does the government care one way or another ?
Does Paul need an F.F.L. ?





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 52811 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rustpot
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quote:
Originally posted by bendable:
Does Paul need an F.F.L. ?


Yes, as described Paul would need an FFL to be fully legal.

Assembling a pile of parts is "manufacturing", the same as changing parts on an assembled gun is "gunsmithing". Both are activities that require an FFL to perform the service for someone else.

It IS legal, and the government doesn't care if Paul sells a rifle from his collection to Pete. So if Paul "builds a rifle for Pete" with the intent of manufacturing for sale it's an FFL activity. If Pete buys Paul some parts for his gun as a gift and Paul happens to decide he doesn't like it and will sell it as part of normal collection ins and outs, it's perfectly legal.
 
Posts: 6016 | Location: Romeo, MI | Registered: January 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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Yes. Paul needs to be a manufacturer, a type-07 FFL. Paul needs to stamp his business name and city/state on the receiver. Paul is circulating a "Rifle" not "Receiver" into commerce prior to it being transferred to a private inidvidual.

If Pete buys all the parts and sends them to Paul, then Paul does not need to be a manufacturer since he's performing a service on all parts that have already been put into commerce and purchased by an individual. Paul can be a type-01 FFL (gunsmith).

Tony.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: benny6,


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-07 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 5009 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of P250UA5
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What if Paul goes to Pete's house & 'helps' him assemble it?

Attaching a complete upper & lower together?
Installing a LPK on an otherwise complete lower, then attaching the complete upper?
Fully assembling a stripped upper & lower?

At what point of minutiae does it become assembly/mfg?




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 12511 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
Just be cautious as the ATF will try to make a mountain out of that ant hill.
The more you disclose and try to do the right thing the more that it will be used against you.
It's all about control.
As they said in Cool Hand Luke " get your mind right". Frown
 
Posts: 21252 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No, not like
Bill Clinton
Picture of BigSwede
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We don't talk about rifle assembly club


*********************
“I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.”
 
Posts: 4761 | Location: GA | Registered: September 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of P250UA5
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BigSwede:
We don't talk about rifle assembly club


Right, right. Rule #1 Wink
Rule #2, refer to Rule #1




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 12511 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
What if Paul goes to Pete's house & 'helps' him assemble it?

Attaching a complete upper & lower together?
Installing a LPK on an otherwise complete lower, then attaching the complete upper?
Fully assembling a stripped upper & lower?

At what point of minutiae does it become assembly/mfg?


If Pete owns the parts and did a 4473 on the serialized part, then Paul can go over and teach Pete how to assemble his parts.

It becomes manufacturing when you make a business out of it.

If a FFL buys parts that cannot go BANG and assembles them into a rifle that can go BANG, and then sells it to a customer as a rifle, that is when it's manufacturing.

If you are in the business (as-in making money) of buying 80% lowers and making functioning rifles and selling them without a 0-7 manufacturers license, then it becomes unlicensed/illegal manufacturing.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-07 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 5009 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
Picture of Ryanp225
posted Hide Post
First off....lower your voice!
Second....don't forget your right to remain silent. That will solve 99.999% of any of these problems.
 
Posts: 10317 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you to those choosing to help out





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 52811 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
They're after my Lucky Charms!
Picture of IrishWind
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Depends. There was a cool guy shop in Fairfax but they didn't want an FFL. Bring in a stripped lower, and walk out with a nice AR with a lot of high end parts. But you had to supply a lower, and even stripped ones have to go through an FFL to get. Everything else in that shop was stuff the ATF didn't care about, unless you wanted an SBR. And then again, the owner was responsible for the legal paperwork.

Now if Pete says make me a lower, and Paul grinds out a lower and builds off of it, and sells it, then he would be a manufacturer and better know the ATF rules on that.


Lord, your ocean is so very large and my divos are so very f****d-up
Dirt Sailors Unite!
 
Posts: 24838 | Location: NoVa | Registered: May 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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I know a guy who is a hobby machinist, builds stuff. Seems to me if it was a friend, helping a friend, no biggie.

I’d think the actual State would matter, some more than others.
 
Posts: 5588 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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