I saw a 1944 MG42 at a local gun show. The vendor was asking something like $32K for it. I think if I had lots of cash sitting around, I would go for it. Even if I only shot it occasionally, it would be a great show piece in my dream gun room.

quote:

Originally posted by MG34_Dan:
You need to ask yourself the following questions. The answers will guild your actions.

1) What is my budget?
2) Are you a meat hunter or trophy hunter?
3) What do you enjoy doing the most; shoot or show?
4) Do you enjoy tinkering or do you just want something that 'works first time, every time'?
5) Do you intend to have friends and family enjoy your new toy too?

6) Do you have somewhere to store cases of ammo?

32K is a great price these days if it was in decent shape. Most I see if they are German not Yugo's run 40K or more.

I would think full autos are like boats. If you can afford it great. Buts its always better to have a friend who owns a boat.

A few years ago I had a windfall come my way ... after mulling it over I decided I wanted an M16 and a registered HK sear, at the time they were almost exactly the same price and both have doubled in value ... makes me consider selling one.

I already had a MP5 SBR that I rarely shot ... the fun wore off pretty quickly in semi but it came back with the sear ... I now have hosts in 9mm, 223(which is my favorite) 7.62x39 and 308 ... and while it is an impressive fire breathing dragon (very impressive at dusk), the 308 is my least favorite.

For the M16 I've bought a 3-round burst trigger as well as many different uppers ... I have uppers in 22LR, 5.7x28, several configurations in 223 from 8.5" up to and including my 20" Colt LMG plus an Ares Defense Belt fed with the 12.5" and 16" barrels, I have a 7.62x39, 10" 9mm and 300BO in 8" through 16" and all run pretty smoothly except the belt-fed ... I just have to remember to put the correct buffer and spring in it, the others aren't too picky.

I've been an HK fan for as long as I can remember but if you can only get one, get the M16 Its a lot less expensive than buying hosts for the HK Sear, and they would be even less now with the AR market crashing!

You can configure the M16 so that anyone can shoot it and get the full-otto experience

Look at a Cobray/SWD M11/9. Fun as hell stock, but not "practical" with a 1200 rpm rate of fire and limited use sights. But you can get a Lage mfg slow-fire upper that has great sights and a pic rail, forward rail, side charging, etc. and any muzzle attachment you want. about 4 grand all in last time I checked. I have had my M11/9 for about 20 years and paid a grand for it back in the 90s. INCLUDING THE TAX. Plus you can get 22 conversions for it and shoot it cheap. Lage makes both a conversion that works with the OEM upper and a conversion that works with the Lage upper if you choose to go that route. By far the least cost of entry into the full-auto world.

Check out the rate of fire on this puppy. LOL

https://youtu.be/R8YvI_pfL4A
https://youtu.be/qLfxPKRLwQQ

22 conversion slows it down some
https://youtu.be/4SqFJosMmN4



M11 Lage upper info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eb4Nj6ywfU

I have been buying MGs for the last 15 years and started shooting them about 20 years ago. The novelty has not worn off.

I have factory Colt M16s, S&H sear converted FNC, DLO HK frame, Fleming HK sear, and vector UZI. If I had to choose one transferable it would be a registered HK trigger frame (fire control "box") or HK sear. While the cost of entry and hosts are high, these give you the option of SMGs in 9/357SIG/40/45, compact, mid and full size assault rifle in 5.56/300BO/762x39, compact and full size 308 battle rifle, beltfed in 5.56 and 308. The versatility is unparalleled.

Because of this versatility and due to the fact that the MP5 remains the most iconic SMG around and is still in widespread use, the HK frame and/or sear are climbing in value at a rate faster than all other transferables.

At the end of the day, you should buy whatever piques your interest the most.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
If I had to choose one transferable it would be a registered HK trigger frame (fire control "box") or HK sear. While the cost of entry and hosts are high, these give you the option of SMGs in 9/357SIG/40/45, compact, mid and full size assault rifle in 5.56/300BO/762x39, compact and full size 308 battle rifle, beltfed in 5.56 and 308. The versatility is unparalleled.

+1.. What Josh said. If only there were Sig Arms registered sears..

quote:

Originally posted by heckler:

+1.. What Josh said. If only there were Sig Arms registered sears..

There are apparently a handful of transferable 550s that were registered prior to the ban. From what I've been told, these were imported as ssniautos for LE evaluation and were converted by slotting the rail prior to 5/19/86. I have never seen one come up for sale and I suspect when one does it will go to James Julia and probably sell for $60-90k.

quote:

posted February 22, 2017 03:34 PM Hide Post


Because of this versatility and due to the fact that the MP5 remains the most iconic SMG around and is still in widespread use, the HK frame and/or sear are climbing in value at a rate faster than all other transferables.

You make some good points about the H&K. But I am not sure the MP5 is the most iconic SMG around. What about a Thompson or an MP40? I also think there are a lot more people that could identify the Uzi that the Secret Service agent had when Reagan was shot, then would know an MP5.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:

quote:

posted February 22, 2017 03:34 PM Hide Post


Because of this versatility and due to the fact that the MP5 remains the most iconic SMG around and is still in widespread use, the HK frame and/or sear are climbing in value at a rate faster than all other transferables.

You make some good points about the H&K. But I am not sure the MP5 is the most iconic SMG around. What about a Thompson or an MP40? I also think there are a lot more people that could identify the Uzi that the Secret Service agent had when Reagan was shot, then would know an MP5.

Depends on the generation. An Uzi or Mini Uzi is very recognizable but remember, about twenty years' worth of action movies and TV shows (probably more) heavily featured the MP5. And let's not forget video games.

The Thompson and MP40 are WWII icons and are probably in today's public's consciousness due to WWII and Prohibition movies.

With the Omega MP5 SD I recently bought I may have to change my vote from the M16 to the HK registered sear.

The only conversions I don't have for the HK platform is the 22LR and a beltfed, of which I have both for the M16 ... the allure of an MP5 SD is strong.



I'm not sure if it's as strong as an M16 beltfed thought ... Although the last price I saw on Gunbroker for a Michaels Machine (HK) 23E was $17K IIRC, but maybe he was just shooting for the moon because when I talked to Michael about a year ago, he said he'd build me one for $12K ... But my Ares Defense was $4K with the lite 16" barrel and semi auto bolt carrier that it came with, then I added a 12" MG barrel and F/A bolt carrier ... It wasn't the HK I really wanted but it was 1/3 the price and it scratched the itch!



I hope I never have to choose!

Bringing up this older post...thank you all for your input. Owning (not just shooting) a full auto is on my bucket list, and about the last frontier to conquer in my collection.

I would love to get a M16, colt or other, but are just too far from my $ reach. 9mm would be the most cost effective, but I've decided I want 5.56/.223. In the $15k range, it seems converted FNC's, the AC-556 series, and maybe an AUG are my options. I was sold on the KAC-556f until I read concerns about the stainless metal fusing together. Anti-seize compound should do the trick, but it seems to get super hot in a hurry as it was never meant for 'military use.'

Any owners of these 3 platforms care to share their pros and cons?

quote:

Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
Bringing up this older post...thank you all for your input. Owning (not just shooting) a full auto is on my bucket list, and about the last frontier to conquer in my collection.

I would love to get a M16, colt or other, but are just too far from my $ reach. 9mm would be the most cost effective, but I've decided I want 5.56/.223. In the $15k range, it seems converted FNC's, the AC-556 series, and maybe an AUG are my options. I was sold on the KAC-556f until I read concerns about the stainless metal fusing together. Anti-seize compound should do the trick, but it seems to get super hot in a hurry as it was never meant for 'military use.'

Any owners of these 3 platforms care to share their pros and cons?

I think if you are at $15k it might be worth seeing if you can sell something or get a loan or figure out a way to stretch your budget to get an M16. The availability of spare parts and uppers and different caliber conversion kits make a huge difference in use and shooting. But if you can't make an M16 another think to look at would be an AR18.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:
I think if you are at $15k it might be worth seeing if you can sell something or get a loan or figure out a way to stretch your budget to get an M16. The availability of spare parts and uppers and different caliber conversion kits make a huge difference in use and shooting. But if you can't make an M16 another think to look at would be an AR18.

I'll second that ... with the M16; I have uppers in 22LR, 5.7X28, 223/5.56, 7.62x39, 300BlackOut and 9mm ... and it's why I wanted either a sear or a DLO pack for my HK's instead of a being stuck with one caliber with the registered receiver. I initially thought 9mm for the sear, but after I bought a C93 Pistol I really enjoyed the 223 ... then 7.62x39 and 308 but now I've come full circle and mostly shoot 9mm in the Omega MP5 SD and MP5K ...

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:

quote:

Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
Bringing up this older post...thank you all for your input. Owning (not just shooting) a full auto is on my bucket list, and about the last frontier to conquer in my collection.

I would love to get a M16, colt or other, but are just too far from my $ reach. 9mm would be the most cost effective, but I've decided I want 5.56/.223. In the $15k range, it seems converted FNC's, the AC-556 series, and maybe an AUG are my options. I was sold on the KAC-556f until I read concerns about the stainless metal fusing together. Anti-seize compound should do the trick, but it seems to get super hot in a hurry as it was never meant for 'military use.'

Any owners of these 3 platforms care to share their pros and cons?

I think if you are at $15k it might be worth seeing if you can sell something or get a loan or figure out a way to stretch your budget to get an M16. The availability of spare parts and uppers and different caliber conversion kits make a huge difference in use and shooting. But if you can't make an M16 another think to look at would be an AR18.

3rd,

but beware on the AR18,
spares are hard to find should something break,


however, my AR18 goes to the range as much as my M16 with no issues

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
Shot many belt-fed MGs in the Army (M249 and M60) and M16A2s w/ burst.

Never had the desire to get one after I got out for a variety of reasons.

If you have the $$$ and feel like jumping through the hoops - go for it. But for any practical applications I can foresee they aren't worth it.

Pretty much this.

But if I were to go for FA, it would be an M16 more than likely.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
Shot many belt-fed MGs in the Army (M249 and M60) and M16A2s w/ burst.

Never had the desire to get one after I got out for a variety of reasons.

If you have the $$$ and feel like jumping through the hoops - go for it. But for any practical applications I can foresee they aren't worth it.

When it comes to MG's the biggest hoop to jump through is the $$$.

You complete the same form 4 to own a suppressor or factory built SBR/SBS as you do an MG, the only difference is in the description of the item that's different ... there are no other hoops or fee's to acquiring an MG.

And if we could still build our own MG's it would be the same Form 1 that we use for SBR's ... again, only difference would be the item description.

Have you ever been to Knob Creek or other Machine Gun shoot? It's more fun and electrifying than any other firearms event I've ever been to. The only practical application is "for fun". Being a civilian, anything else would be questionable!

A lot has already been covered but here's my contribution.
I've owned or fired almost every firearm mentioned so I offer my advice. Between the long guns mentioned I would rank them as follows. Please note the M16 only beats the HK sear because it's overall costs are much less, if money is no object I'd pick the HK sear all day long.
1- M16 registered lower. Proven design, relatively inexpensive parts and mags, practically unlimited stock, upper and caliber conversions so it has the most utility for lesser investment cost, 3rd burst available, short barrels not subject to SBR regs, a 9" barreled 300 BLK makes less noise than an MP5 SD.
2- HK registered sear. Proven design, very expensive but available parts and mags, trigger pack with sear installed can clip into any of the 9xx series, subgun to light machine gun so has a lot of utility, smooth operation when properly timed means it's easy to actually hit your target. Caution it's easy to go overboard on barreled uppers, trust me on this. But having clones in MP5, MP5k PDW, MP5 SD make you the coolest guy at the range (at least that day). SMG's in 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 22lr, and 10mm. True battle rifles in 223 and 308 all the way up to guick change barrel belt feds are available for a price. A Michaels Machine 21 or 23 would be close to finding the ultimate meaning of happiness, maybe one day. But I'm much to poor to feed a rifle caliber belt fed on a regular basis and it's hard to find a range that allows them. The sear will likely appreciate the most. 2 or 3 round burst conversions available for around 1K extra. The PDW version is my favorite although I have an MP5 10mm clone I haven't tried yet. Did I mention expensive mags and parts?
3- FN FNC. I have a paratrooper folding stock with S&H sear with 3rd burst. Very smooth, uses AR mags. Expensive harder to find parts but very well made. The FNC and Ruger have less overall utility as calibers and barrel lengths cannot be easily changed.
4- AC556 I have the full sized one now but also had an KAC556k stainless folder with shorter barrel. Both are a blast to fire, factory 3rd burst, high cap factory mags are available at around $40, easily screwed up trigger mechanism, unsure if Ruger will provide parts or service, not a true combat rifle like the others but I never had as much as a jam in mine. The KAC 556k was very small and handy, looking back I wish I'd kept it and sold the full sized version. A 22lr conversion is available but the guy that sells them is a piece of work so I never tried one, however it may work fine but mags are pricey.

Other thoughts on the subject.

For investment consider a piece of history like
a Thompson Sub Machine gun. I REALLY wish I had gotten one back in the day. Of course there is a big difference between a true collector piece or a blaster that will be shot long and hard and often.

The M11 SMG is a good beginner sub gun with a slow fire upper, like the one from Lage. Its a huge improvement over the original version and truly moves into affordable competition or tactical uses. Lots of stocks and accessories, I haven't tried the 22 conversion but 22lr auto is very fun and affordable.

A Browning 1919 is a very interesting and historical piece that will last forever, however it's very obsolete compared to a more modern arm like the HK 23e you could have with the sear.

The Uzi isn't a bad gun but really doesn't compare to the MP5. You can change calibers from 9mm to 45ACP (16 round mags) and also to 22lr. However it's big and heavy.

I'm a friend's trust with a MAC-11 and HK sear. He's on mine so I've done my part and recently paid for an M2 Carbine. It scratches the M1 itch nicely and should do ok as an investment, though the prices are all over the board. It's a commercial model not USGI so it was cheaper than a MAC goes for these days.

Ammo prices are challenging but we'll see how it is to shoot. I got a good price on it so won't lose any value on it.